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A general contractor's markup

stumpjumper83

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Jan 13, 2007
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1,979
Location
Port Allegany, pa
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Movin dirt
So anyone know what the standard markup is for a general contractor? Reason being is that I have a fair bit of work lined up, and I'm looking at subing some of it out.

Also are there any potiential problem that I can get into from subing stuff out?

Some of the work is stuff I'm not set up for, for instance I have two small paving jobs I'm looking at, where I am interested in doing the grading and leaving the paving up to paving people.

Any thoughts?
 

Aliate

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Feb 17, 2009
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325
Location
Seattle, WA
GC takes 30%, I know you gave me advice in my other thread, but my father was a sub for a long time and he was very loyal to his GC because he always took care of him financially. Take care of the subs.
 

Speedpup

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New York
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So anyone know what the standard markup is for a general contractor? Reason being is that I have a fair bit of work lined up, and I'm looking at subing some of it out.

Also are there any potiential problem that I can get into from subing stuff out?

Some of the work is stuff I'm not set up for, for instance I have two small paving jobs I'm looking at, where I am interested in doing the grading and leaving the paving up to paving people.

Any thoughts?

Get the insurance cert from sub before he starts and before you pay him or you will have to pay it. Manage it closely because you are the end of the line. I would say 15% or less in today's market. Depends on job size. Count your supervision cost separately. I know some GC's taking jobs for a few points 2-3% and hoping to slam the subs on the 13 million dollar job.

If it is prevailing wage thn if they don't pay it you must so keep that paper trailer good.

Get hold harmless on the insurance cert's they give you for yourself and the owner.

Be clear when they are getting paid usually 5-10 days after the owner pays you if you like it that way.

Get a schedule of values for everything involved in the job that they do. Then if there are extras or changes you have something to work from for pricing.

Don't let the sub front load the job by saying the items they do first are worth more. For instance excavating for paving is 10 bucks and paving is 1 dollar. I have seen guys get paid to much then split. You will be then left with the bag.

Make sure scope of work is clear and all spec's are clear. That will prevent misunderstandings and hard feelings.
 

joispoi

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Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
1,284
Location
Connecticut
What you can mark up depends alot on where you are working and who your competition is.

I was a GC in southern CT for 10 years. I never quite broke the million $ a year mark in gross sales, but I wasn't that far off some years. 10% was what some guys were going in with for the bigger jobs. The lowest I found that I could go was 12% to cover costs, pay for my time and have enough left to buy myself and the guys on the job coffee. In my experience, 15% when times are good. Even at that, competition is cut throat.



The more volume you do in business, the more money you're going to have to pay in insurance. Even with the all the insurance certificates from the subs being in order. The insurance co's reasoning is that with more volume there's more risk exposure :rolleyes:. If you don't get a yearly insurance audit, this may not apply.

You have to have enough in there to cover your time to go out to the jobs and supervise that things are being done the way they should. It's your name on the job, not the subs....make sure it's done to your standards. Go in with modest markup. Clients talk to their friends and that's where referals come from.

Or you could go in there with 30% markup and have more time to spend on here. ;)
 

Aliate

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Feb 17, 2009
Messages
325
Location
Seattle, WA
lol ive only worked for one gc and I THINK his markup is 30% and my father subbed for 30%, he had a lot of work and still made plenty of money though, I always thought 30% was the standard
 

liebherr1160

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Dec 30, 2008
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550
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in an igloo
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Crane Operator
Most contractor's (resi)..Its twice plus 10%


Example : Say your putting up a garage total cost finished is 12K in material.. You can Expect a quote of 26K from the contractor ..not a nickel less ..seems to be the norm in these parts ..and all these guys are busy ..

The reason is simple ..you cant make money on every job, every time ..



sorry if i strayed of topic ..
 

stumpjumper83

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Port Allegany, pa
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Movin dirt
leibherr1160, my father is a carpenter, and taught other carpenters for 30 plus years and what you talking about is standard procedure for the building trades in general.

My question was, what should I do to the numbers after I get a quote from a sub for handling part of the excavating process for me.

In refrence to your method, how does that work for dirt work?
 

Speedpup

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leibherr1160, my father is a carpenter, and taught other carpenters for 30 plus years and what you talking about is standard procedure for the building trades in general.

My question was, what should I do to the numbers after I get a quote from a sub for handling part of the excavating process for me.

In refrence to your method, how does that work for dirt work?

It really comes down to you identifying your true and total cost then adding what you find acceptable for a profit for your work. Now with things so tight it is all over the board in every trade. Personally for me it's 17% after my cost for all the labor, material, and equipment cost. Also depends on the size of the project for many GC's.

GC's may have to estimate the volume of work they expect to do during the upcoming year and get insurance prices based on that. Then if they don't do the volume they expected it cost them dearly.

Doubt you will ever see 30% in this market or even remotely close. How much time will you spend supervising the job and how much do you want per hour? Getting better subs is a plus because you may trust them to work without being there all the time.

Will you be doing work there when they are or will you just be watching them?

There is a saying "with cheap prices how many aspirin are you willing to take?"

I may be a little more then other at times but the GC's know they don't have to leave a super on the job all the time when I am there. If I need something I call. Some projects require the GC to have a rep on site when ever work is being done by a sub. I have no clue how GC's bid that because it is enforced sometimes snd sometimes not. Huge difference in cost for a GC.

What size is the job and how long will it take?
 

bpogue

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Jan 31, 2010
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95
Location
Missouri
Part of the problem in determining markup is definition. Does your markup include your labor, supervision, or just profit? Try to define most of your costs as hard costs that you can assign a definite number for. Figure out what total costs should be on a job first, then work on markup. It sure would be nice to see 30%. I see about 5-10% OH&P around here, if you're lucky.
 

Impact

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Nov 29, 2009
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Kentucky
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Owner
Everybody's talking about something different when they discuss "margin of profit". Some guys add a straight percentage to cover both overhead and profit to the "hard costs" of the project. Some guys add overhead before adding profit. In my humble opinion, most contractors fail because they can't get a good handle on their overhead costs. How do you apply overhead costs to the project? Is overhead a percentage of hard cost? Are overhead costs more related to time on the project?

Getting back to your question. Make SURE you have all of the hard costs associated with the costs of the paving contractor. Insurance..management to oversee the quality of his work..overhead costs attributed to doing business, in whichever method you typically recoup overhead costs, and then add profit to the highest percentage you feel you can get. In other words..."whatever the market allows". Why make 10% when you can make 40%? Why loose the job if you can make 10%?
 

barklee

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Aug 4, 2009
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ohio
Most of the GCs i know are between 3-8% for basically being a paper contractor on commercial work. Thats subbing 90% of the work out and being a "manager". On the type of thing you are talking about i would tell you charge as much as the market will bear. You are not bidding in the traditional GC sense of the word. I dont think that 30% is realistic subbing out your work but if you think that you can get it i would sure give it a try! I really dont estimate based on percentages myself, i just know what i need to make a day and what my market will bear and try to find myself somewhere in the middle. I only use a percentage to backcheck myself. When i sub something out i usually add a certain amount of net profit per day based on how long my sub will be on my job.
 

rino1494

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NEPA
Don't let the sub front load the job by saying the items they do first are worth more. For instance excavating for paving is 10 bucks and paving is 1 dollar. I have seen guys get paid to much then split. You will be then left with the bag.

I do this all the time to help pay for the materials. I do not make it that obvious though.:drinkup
 

Reuben

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Jan 28, 2008
Messages
450
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north central pa
Who you getting to pave it,Wayne?GOH? send me a PM and I will go ever that with ya... being that you are only 20 minutes from me I will give you my advise, although we do mostly government work so I dont know how much it will actually help...
 
Joined
Dec 11, 2009
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17
Location
Boston, MA
"Impact" is right. Everyone on here is talking about different things. I work for a $50 million+ contractor and have worked for larger ones and I have noticed that often times the big difference between the large contractors and small ones who want to grow but are struggling is that the smaller ones struggle to identify all costs. You want to focus on what you want to can achieve for a gross profit on the project.

Gross Profit (in my mind and I was an accounting major before I got into this crazy business) should be defined as:

Gross Profit = Total Revenue - Cost of Direct Services Sold.

Cost of Direct Services sold would include your subs costs, any time you spend on the project (if you will be there 10% of the time you will need to take 10% of your expected salary that year and include it), any equipment support you will have to provide and any materials you will have to expend.

It does not include your home office Overhead/indirect costs (accounting, rent, utilities, secretaries etc).Your home office overhead should not be considered because it is a fixed cost. At the end of the year it will not change. Only the amount of revenue you brought in will (unless you hire more management etc.)

Like you, we self perform some work and sub out specialty work. What I would suggest is doing this exercise in reverse, figure out how much your work will cost and how much the subs are willing to work for and then combining them and you will have all your costs for the project first. Then look at your costs and determine what you want your markup to be. For us, as a large contractor doing major projects in the Boston area it is usually 10-15%. This is a highly competitive marketplace and don't forget that we also have to cover our home office overhead. At the end of the year we usually end up with somewhere around 8-10% total net income on work (implying we have 2-5% home office overhead). You do smaller work and possibly the markups are larger. However, if the markups after ALL your costs are 30% please tell me where you are working because I need to come start bidding jobs. No contractor regularly makes 30% after ALL costs in a competitive marketplace because there is always someone willing to do it for 15%.

As for issues you should worry about I would start with getting quality subs you trust. I cannot stress the importance of this. Incompetent subs just bleed money for a GC. If there is a guy who is slightly higher in price but will do the work properly with nearly no supervision...HIRE HIM! Secondly, you need to get a strong contract to lock these guys up. You should be able to find one online for a smaller work but if you get into bigger projects hire an attorney. You do not want them being able to walk off jobs for no reason with no fear. Thirdly, I would suggest holding retainage on him until you are certain the work is complete to a high degree. 5-10% should work and usually will allow you to back charge him if you end up having to complete something he didn't do or did poorly. Release it only once you are sure he has completed everything properly. Fourth, the people who said insurance were very right. Make sure he is licensed and insured (put it in the contract). Lastly, I would remember that if you are a GC it is now your reputation on the line for other peoples work. You need to remember to be tough with them and be demanding of quality, safety and respect to the customer.

Boy that unintentionally got longwinded. Good luck!
 
Joined
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Boston, MA
I should add that IF you follow those steps regarding contracts and retainage your profit margin should vary based on how much of the work is subbed out. For example, we make 15% on projects we are doing solely ourselves and sometimes less than 10% on projects we are subbing out completely. The reason for this is that subbing it out has less risk. It is no longer your number on the line because you have a subcontractor under agreement to do the work. The only real risk you have is if he goes out of business or underperforms and takes off and you have to finish the work. If he gave you a bad number, too bad for him. He has to complete the work if he plans on staying in business or you can sue him.

Additionally, we work mostly in the public forum where I get the impression the margins can be lower. I would not imagine the private market is making much more but they could be because a trusting, repeat client will sometimes not even go get two bids. Certainly on some private jobs you can clean up. However, we did lose one private connection due to marking him up too high risking he would not be checking our number. He did and hired the other guy.
 

thomascook

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Mar 28, 2013
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washington
So you never thinking about the solutions whenever you trying to perform an general construction or any service for putting this job, general contractor Vancouver WA is an option to begin this service in any movement. So, paying only for services you have get it in Construction.
 
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