A few projects I have done recently

[CM1995]

As far as cm buying a cat hammer his post is prime example my cat dealer wouldn't take care of me like that here they would stretch me out to get by until I unload a fleet of iron in there driveway

That's the reason I divorced Bobcat and haven't looked back.

 

[John5450]

Nice job

 

[DGODGR]

DG I went with the Cat hammer for several reasons -

1. I'm a Cat guy and have a great relationship with my dealer.
2. Wanted to add a QC. Our 325 already had the coupler lines we could have done it easily but it was part of the package. I have only had a Cat pin grabber coupler in the past and wanted to go with one again.
3. Cat Financial is offering 0% for 24 Months on attachments which is $2800 a month for the package. Going into the arena job I needed to watch my cash flow up front until we get into the first couple of billing cycles. Instead of renting a hammer and machine for $14K a month I get a new hammer for $2800 month. The arena job will pay for it in a couple of months.
4. The manual thumb bracket needed to be lowered on the stick to work with the bucket in a
different position with the QC. Cat dealer has great welders that I trust to weld on my machine - this was included in the $69K quote. More on that below.
5. Warranty, see #1 above. If we have any problems with the setup then I have one number to call. More on that below.

More from #4 -

So the dealer gets the QC installed and even with lowering the manual thumb plate the bucket and thumb wouldn't work as designed. Salesman called me to discuss and the solution was to order new tines which are longer and designed to work with a QC. Now here's the boot - at no charge to me.

Now for more on #5 ...

Thursday while my super was running the hammer the hyd. circuit stayed in the ON position and would not turn off with the rocker switch on the joystick. Stopped the machine, turned it off and removed the hammer selection in the monitor just to see if it reset. It didn't.

Let the machine sit for more than an hour and I tried it again. As soon as I turned the key the lines on the hammer pulsed - not good. Limped it to the parking lot for the mechanic that would soon be headed that way, under warranty of course. As I limped the tractor to the parking lot you could tell the aux. circuit was pushing oil as it was robbing power from everything else.

Dealer service showed up last Friday and started breaking it apart. One of the valves is stuck in the on position on the aux valve block. This unit is not serviceable - remove and replace with a new one.

The aux. valve is on the front of the pump.

View attachment 218293

Specifically this one -

View attachment 218295

Part number -

View attachment 218294

Mechanic comes over to tell us they have one in Atlanta which normally would be in Birmingham the following morning if ordered by 7. However being a holiday weekend and we were leaving at lunch it turned into a we'll get it back running by Tuesday afternoon. Fair enough.

30 minutes later the mechanic comes over to tell us the bad news. Atlanta stocks the part normally but they are out and the closest ones are in Australia or Germany. I know the parts guy that made the mistake and he was sick over it. By Friday afternoon the parts guy had found a used one we could get by Tuesday but me and my PSR decided against that route on such a new machine.

So they get the one from Germany coming and it will be here this Friday. Now at this point I have the service department, salesman and PSR all working on this but the problem is we have a hard shutdown with a 5 day window at the arena job to take a heavily reinforced 18" concrete wall down. The GC is shutting down the access to the lower arena level for obvious safety reasons so we had to produce and need a hammer in combination with the pulverizer to do it. Like I told my salesman and PSR in a not smart assed way - I wouldn't bought a hammer if I didn't need.

So here's the bright spot and goes back to #1 above - At 5 PM on a Friday before a holiday weekend I call my salesman to explain what we have coming up and he tells me he'll get me a machine out there we can use until ours is fixed Stuff breaks it's the nature of heavy equipment it's how people handle it that matters.

Thankfully I have one entity to look at to fix it - the dealer. The 325FL is under warranty and of course the new kit is so it's their's to make right. I shudder to think if I would put another hammer on it - the finger pointing would have cost me thousands.

Now I am very worried about debris in the hydraulic system but I'm not going to borrow trouble at this point.

While you had no idea that his was going t happen before you bought the tool I fully understand your line of thinking. For several years this type of support is what I came to expect (and received) from CAT. The funny thing about having such a great reputation is that it takes a long time to build but it doesn't take much to loose it. My local dealer hosed me with a pump replacement on my 315. The manager swore that they would make it up to me if they got the chance. The chance came and they let me down again. Shortly there-after they fouled up a thumb cylinder repair several times. I ended up missing out on a job because they didn't do theirs correctly. I know that this is vague and possibly one-sided. I would be happy to provide as much detail as you my want but it would be a long story so I am condensing it considerably. My salesman gave me a whole bunch of lip service about all this while I was shopping for my latest excavator. Of all the promises he made he came through on none of them. It took a long time for me to decide on a trackhoe because I was really hoping to get some resolution from CAT. It took so long that I got to go to ConExpo during the process. I actually talked to the guy responsible for excavators in North America at the CAT booth. I told him all about my latest experiences (the trouble I had with the 315 and how difficult it was to even get my salesman to return my calls regarding the possible purchase of a 323F) with Wagner Eqpt. I also explained to him that he would actually have to talk me back into even considering CAT in my purchasing process. Oddly enough I got a call from my salesman the next morning....the price for a new 323F went from $249k to $216k!! I almost bought the 323 but due to continued issues with the salesman I realized that he was just providing lip service and that I could expect the same disappointing level of support from them that I was already getting. So I called the salesman, told him as much, and went to Deere and bought a new 245G for $254K. That's right.......I willingly spent a lot more money on a Deere than I would have for the CAT just because I felt I had to try another brand to see if I could get the support that I was no longer getting from CAT. Based on my own experience and the examples you gave above, I fully understand your choice and I would suggest that you made the correct one. I hope that you get your issues resolved quickly.

 

[DGODGR]

DG if you want answers to the other questions move them to my thread I dont need to derail cm any mo red e than we have

Agreed.

 

[DGODGR]

That's the reason I divorced Bobcat and haven't looked back.

I divorced Bobcat too! Does that make me a "two time loser"?

 

[CM1995]

I divorced Bobcat too! Does that make me a "two time loser"?

LOL - just means we have sucky dealers

 

[CM1995]

Called my salesman this morning as we discussed on Friday afternoon. He told me they were working on taking an aux. valve off a new machine at another branch in South Alabama but he was still working on it and didn't know if was going to work out.

I reiterated that we had a hard timeline starting on the 28th where we had to get a larger retainer wall down in 5 working days and was about to walk into a weekly schedule meeting needing to know that we'll have a machine Thursday morning. He assured me one way or the other we'll have a hammer come Thursday morning.

Well I get a text at around 3 this afternoon from my salesman saying he has picked up the valve and bringing it back.



I cannot ask for more than that. Equipment breaks down, all of it - it's the people backing it that make the difference no matter the brand.

 

[AzIron]

That's pretty good service I am jealous I have had 3 sales men in 2 years at our cat dealer none of them really like me I wont buy there bs

 

[CM1995]

AZ that sounds like my Bobcat dealer and I've known both salesmen for years including the owner. I will not even consider a Bobcat product. When you can order OEM Bobcat parts from a dealer in Atlanta, have them shipped 2 hours west and still be cheaper than local there's a problem.

Our local Komatsu salesman has only come around once in the last 10 years - I don't even know his name. John Deere salesman has come around a few times over the last couple of years but I think he recently retired. It surprises me that we don't get called on more often from other dealers as most of our projects are projects located in high traffic areas around the city.

 

[AzIron]

Personally I am quite peeved at our deere dealer right now I have a pretty good salesman but the one I had before him got is onto deere and they pushed him out because he didn't play politics and he scared the sales manager I never realized how much the relationship with the salesman helps your over all service

The cat dealer has quite an attitude about themselves being better than everyone else it used to be true not anymore but you know it's my pleasure to be allowed to buy there equipment

Komatsu dealer gets a new sales man every 9 months because no one stays they take good care of guys that buy a machine or 2 every year but not us small lesser contractors

A friend is an owner operator looking at a new backhoe at a different brand than his current and the new sales guy he got tried to compare him to production numbers at one of the largest grading companies around. He kinda took it offensively cause that company doesnt have a backhoe operators that keeps up with my friend but you know the sales guy is the expert and went through a training class on equipment so he tells you what you need better than yourself

I guess the relationship part of this industry has died cause when I was growing up everyone at the dealer knew me especially the sales staff our cat sales man was at a couple family function but today's guys most I would associate with outside work

 

[DGODGR]

Well I get a text at around 3 this afternoon from my salesman saying he has picked up the valve and bringing it back.
I cannot ask for more than that. Equipment breaks down, all of it - it's the people backing it that make the difference no matter the brand.

Well said. I'm glad your CAT dealer is a "stand up" outfit. That kind of support makes a huge difference and it must feel good knowing that you made the right choice buying CAT. I still have a couple pieces of CAT iron so I still have a relationship with the local dealer. Despite the bad experiences I've had they are still the best dealership in my little town. Recently they made good on one of their mistakes. They ruined a cylinder (I had in there for rebuild) during disassembly. They gave me a brand new component for the price of the rebuild, and, they had it there the next day. It was the clam-shell bucket cylinder from my 416C. To quote you CM..."I can't ask for anything more than that". I have recently "un-divorced" them enough to buy a new 305.5 from them. They had the best price, best financing, and I liked how it worked compared to all the others I demoed (Volvo, Deere, Takeuchi, & Komatsu). Unfortunately they didn't get my paperwork done before I got the fear of COVID-19 in me so I sent it back to the dealer. We never quit working and it's actually starting to pick up as well. Maybe I'll call him back and see if he still has that machine....

 

[John C.]

Having worked at several franchised dealers, I might have a couple of things that might help understand the current troubles with those companies.

The first thing that people don't realize is that all dealers now have three different money making enterprises. They are sales, parts and service. They are essentially run like three completely separate companies. Each little company loves nothing better that screwing over the other. The sales department has to pay service at a rate of ten percent less than street rate. Service gets the same deal from the parts department. Sales is always trying to claim that everything that goes wrong with a machine is a warranty problem. The sales force is mostly recent college graduates full of dreams of lots of money in commission sales, plenty of free trips on the company dollar wining and dining customers and a free rein on how they spent their time. The reality hits them on their first one or two commission checks that are a month or more late and the math doesn't work because there are the company owner spiffs that bleed off the money the rep is paid. A sales manager that is on the hook for making a budget set up by idiots and impossible to fulfill now starts putting pressure on the reps to over promise, and they don't have anything to work with. The over promise hits the service department who don't have enough wrenches so they start blaming the parts department for not having the parts as the reason they can't get out to fix a machine right away. Now the parts people also have issues as most have started with a broom in their hands cleaning the warehouse and putting new parts on the shelves. The guy answering the phone might have the best intensions for the customer but usually gets a lot of static from the service people in the shop. The part isn't where you said it would be, the part is wrong because you put in the wrong number and so on. All this is capped by a manufacturer who over promises the capabilities of their machine, tries to pump up the dealer sales department to push their iron over everyone else and generally tries to squeezed the dealer service people by setting the prices they will pay for warranty work which generally only cover the loaded rates for the wrenches and don't pay any incidentals like travel time, mileage and expenses. But then again the sales force wants their new machine customers to the warranty work done before any revenue customer gets taken care of.

Now put a customer in the mix who only wants to go back to work as soon as possible. Everyone is always aggravated about something and you walk in the door thinking that all those people like you and want to help. In truth a customer is only seen as a rube who should get fleeced for as much as possible. I can't tell you how many times I've heard sales people brag about how they drove a company into going broke, or people in the service department laugh about how much was charged for an engine or hydraulic pump rebuild. When it all gets said and done, the only people who make out are the owners of the dealership. The only thing they look at is the bottom line at the end of each month. The advise I give to my clients is to understand what you are facing in the machine game and plan accordingly.

 

[CM1995]

Having worked at several franchised dealers, I might have a couple of things that might help understand the current troubles with those companies.

The first thing that people don't realize is that all dealers now have three different money making enterprises. They are sales, parts and service. They are essentially run like three completely separate companies. Each little company loves nothing better that screwing over the other. The sales department has to pay service at a rate of ten percent less than street rate. Service gets the same deal from the parts department. Sales is always trying to claim that everything that goes wrong with a machine is a warranty problem. The sales force is mostly recent college graduates full of dreams of lots of money in commission sales, plenty of free trips on the company dollar wining and dining customers and a free rein on how they spent their time. The reality hits them on their first one or two commission checks that are a month or more late and the math doesn't work because there are the company owner spiffs that bleed off the money the rep is paid. A sales manager that is on the hook for making a budget set up by idiots and impossible to fulfill now starts putting pressure on the reps to over promise, and they don't have anything to work with. The over promise hits the service department who don't have enough wrenches so they start blaming the parts department for not having the parts as the reason they can't get out to fix a machine right away. Now the parts people also have issues as most have started with a broom in their hands cleaning the warehouse and putting new parts on the shelves. The guy answering the phone might have the best intensions for the customer but usually gets a lot of static from the service people in the shop. The part isn't where you said it would be, the part is wrong because you put in the wrong number and so on. All this is capped by a manufacturer who over promises the capabilities of their machine, tries to pump up the dealer sales department to push their iron over everyone else and generally tries to squeezed the dealer service people by setting the prices they will pay for warranty work which generally only cover the loaded rates for the wrenches and don't pay any incidentals like travel time, mileage and expenses. But then again the sales force wants their new machine customers to the warranty work done before any revenue customer gets taken care of.

Now put a customer in the mix who only wants to go back to work as soon as possible. Everyone is always aggravated about something and you walk in the door thinking that all those people like you and want to help. In truth a customer is only seen as a rube who should get fleeced for as much as possible. I can't tell you how many times I've heard sales people brag about how they drove a company into going broke, or people in the service department laugh about how much was charged for an engine or hydraulic pump rebuild. When it all gets said and done, the only people who make out are the owners of the dealership. The only thing they look at is the bottom line at the end of each month. The advise I give to my clients is to understand what you are facing in the machine game and plan accordingly.

John that sounds like one of our name brand "compact equipment" dealers here - All the customer is to them is a $.

 

[CM1995]

Back to the 325 issue.

So my salesman dropped off the valve they took off a new machine yesterday and dropped it of at field service yesterday afternoon.

Two F750 service trucks rolled up on the job this morning and by 12:10 PM the machine was back up and hammering.



Can't ask for any better service than that. Also got an extra 5 gal bucket of 10WT to boot. I picked up a set of hydraulic filters today as we're going to change all the filters in 8-10 hrs just for good measure.

 

[John C.]

There is a logging company out here that everyone just loves to deal with. Every dealer bends over backwards for their business and I've never heard anything but good about them from the dealer wrenches. I've seen service managers make the big boys wait if it comes to it just to take care of this company. They have proven to me that nice gets things done. You strike me as one who also applies that approach to business.

 

[AzIron]

I was taught you give your word and that is were the buck stops. Now I understand things break and no one is perfect so I try to catch flies with honey than salt I am not opposed to beating on the dealer when I need to get my point across but mostly I try to be courteous and polite but if I ran my buissness like the dealers do competition would put me right out of business

 

[DGODGR]

Back to the 325 issue.

So my salesman dropped off the valve they took off a new machine yesterday and dropped it of at field service yesterday afternoon.

Two F750 service trucks rolled up on the job this morning and by 12:10 PM the machine was back up and hammering.

View attachment 218429

Can't ask for any better service than that. Also got an extra 5 gal bucket of 10WT to boot. I picked up a set of hydraulic filters today as we're going to change all the filters in 8-10 hrs just for good measure.

Good to see CM. That hammer should bust concrete without issue.

 

[DGODGR]

There is a logging company out here that everyone just loves to deal with. Every dealer bends over backwards for their business and I've never heard anything but good about them from the dealer wrenches. I've seen service managers make the big boys wait if it comes to it just to take care of this company. They have proven to me that nice gets things done. You strike me as one who also applies that approach to business.

I was taught you give your word and that is were the buck stops. Now I understand things break and no one is perfect so I try to catch flies with honey than salt I am not opposed to beating on the dealer when I need to get my point across but mostly I try to be courteous and polite but if I ran my buissness like the dealers do competition would put me right out of business

I'm not sure if honey or vinegar is the way to go. I agree wit AZ in most of what he said here. One is only as good as their word and one's true character is revealed in tough times. I will always be tactful and polite because I demand such respect and therefore would not offer others any less. Within that operating principle I will also hold folks accountable regarding their promises. Again, I will keep my word and I also expect others to do the same. As we all know things happen that are outside of one's control. Sometimes these things prevent us from keeping our promises. I have yet to meet an individual or a company that can walk on water but what one does to clean up after the mistakes/broken commitments is where the rubber meets the road.

 

[AzIron]

I think one thing that really rubs me is what we pay for service with both cat and deere they failed at about half the jobs they have done in the last 2 years now on all occasions things were made right when all was set and done but when you schedule a machine for service or it blgoes down and they repair it and a few days later your back in the shop

I then have my customers to take care of with no machine so then I rent one and since it's a machine I own outright they wont help with that so why am I paying 120 an hour for service if it's going to be best 2 outage three I should be paying 80 or 90

 

[DGODGR]

It's funny that you should mention that. When I had that issue with my 315 pump R&R (was quoted $8k but was asked to pay $14k after the fact with no calls prior to final bill) one of the reasons he gave me for the overage to the repair segment for removing the old and installing the new one was that he had a "young shop". I asked him what the "young shop" rate was. He said that there was no "young shop" rate. As we all know (but for a few exceptions) the best mechanics are in the service trucks. The shop has a foreman, and/or other more experienced mechanics to assist if needed. I explained this to him and also explained how I felt that the issue was his to worry about and not mine as I was paying top dollar for what CAT markets as "the best service and support so it's worth the extra cost" (and the fact that he gave me a quote!).
Anyway, I think that this has become more common than less. Whether it is for the reasons that John C has pointed out, problems with the work ethic of the next generation, or because Mercury is in retrograde really is inconsequential. I still struggle with it and I am now tired of venting about it. I do, however, find it refreshing to hear about the level of service that CM is experiencing....It brings back good memories