941x941b

[charles walton]

I ju st bought a CAT 941 sn 80h0647 and I have 941b sn 80h6489 and the earlyier one has a better radiator than the B does and I was going to swap them but the core number is different. Can I swap the whole nose or not? I was also wondering if the trans,steering cluthces and final drives are common? Anyone on here know the answers?

 

[charles walton]

View attachment 278751 View attachment 278751

 

[charles walton]

 

[charles walton]

Hy is it none of you experts will even comment on this post? I'm totally baffled at it.

 

[Nige]

The problem with machines of the age of these two S/Ns is that the online system no longer contains the details of the arrangement (build information). A "no product configuration to display" message comes up. Therefore if there are X possible options of a certain component available then all of them are listed with no indication of exactly which one is installed.

Will the radiator swap.? No idea, as you say the cores are different. Also the radiator guard structures are different Part Numbers.
Steering clutches - the early machine has 2 options, the later one only 1 but all three group numbers are different.
Transmission - early machine has 3 options, later one has 2. Those 2 are the same as 2 of the options for the early machine but who knows which one of them each of your machines actually has.?
Final Drives are different Group Numbers between the two machines. The later machine there are two options and again who knows which one of them is actually installed.?

As you can see it's not as easy as might be assumed at first sight.

 

[bccat]

Hy is it none of you experts will even comment on this post? I'm totally baffled at it.

The way l would do it, is to compare the differences by looking at your parts books for each machine ( I assume you have these) and supplying part # of the rads, show more pics & part #s. Put the machine’s side by side , take some measurements and go from there.Like Nige said, it’s impossible to say anything from the info you supplied.

 

[charles walton]

The problem with machines of the age of these two S/Ns is that the online system no longer contains the details of the arrangement (build information). A "no product configuration to display" message comes up. Therefore if there are X possible options of a certain component available then all of them are listed with no indication of exactly which one is installed.

Will the radiator swap.? No idea, as you say the cores are different. Also the radiator guard structures are different Part Numbers.
Steering clutches - the early machine has 2 options, the later one only 1 but all three group numbers are different.
Transmission - early machine has 3 options, later one has 2. Those 2 are the same as 2 of the options for the early machine but who knows which one of them each of your machines actually has.?
Final Drives are different Group Numbers between the two machines. The later machine there are two options and again who knows which one of them is actually installed.?

As you can see it's not as easy as might be assumed at first sight.

Thanks Nige,Ireally had no idea just how difficult they have made it to figure these things out. Cat use to really try to keep the older tractors running,it seems like the really changed their attitude when they came out with the modern insignia with the triangle in it. Now they just want to cater to the big boys and heck with the smaller guys. I was hoping maybe someone that has built a few old tractors like mine would chime in with some hands on experience.P.S, It does have some nice track frames AND the gaurds.

 

[charles walton]

The way l would do it, is to compare the differences by looking at your parts books for each machine ( I assume you have these) and supplying part # of the rads, show more pics & part #s. Put the machine’s side by side , take some measurements and go from there.Like Nige said, it’s impossible to say anything from the info you supplied.

The only problem is the older machine is 120 miles from the other one but I'm going to take some measurements and see if the hardnose can just be swapped.

 

[Nige]

it seems like the really changed their attitude when they came out with the modern insignia with the triangle in it.

Actually it was much more recent that that. Up to the introduction of v2.0 of SIS only a couple of years ago the online resource contained a lot of information about older machines. It still contains all the same parts & service information, it's only the detail of exactly how a particular machine was built that's not there any more.

 

[charles walton]

The problem with machines of the age of these two S/Ns is that the online system no longer contains the details of the arrangement (build information). A "no product configuration to display" message comes up. Therefore if there are X possible options of a certain component available then all of them are listed with no indication of exactly which one is installed.

Will the radiator swap.? No idea, as you say the cores are different. Also the radiator guard structures are different Part Numbers.
Steering clutches - the early machine has 2 options, the later one only 1 but all three group numbers are different.
Transmission - early machine has 3 options, later one has 2. Those 2 are the same as 2 of the options for the early machine but who knows which one of them each of your machines actually has.?
Final Drives are different Group Numbers between the two machines. The later machine there are two options and again who knows which one of them is actually installed.?

As you can see it's not as easy as might be assumed at first sight.

Could the different trans and steering on the early models be due to a direct drive model?

 

[Nige]

Could the different trans and steering on the early models be due to a direct drive model?

No direct drive on a 941/941B. It's all torque converter/powershift transmission. The only 2 options are lever steer and pedal steer.

 

[Welder Dave]

Never knew Cat had a lever steer option for late 60's and on track loaders.

 

[charles walton]

Never knew Cat had a lever steer option for late 60's and on track loaders.

I have seen one in the junk yard.

 

[tctractors]

The final drives have a different tooth count on the Bull and Pinion gears, the Bevel gear and Pinion also has a different tooth count, the Radiators are different as the B has the Trans cooler section, the 941 was first built with the option of lever or peddle steering, if both have peddle steer they will have 14 bolt drums and things will swap around some, lots of part changes between the 2 models so be careful. tctractors p.s. the 951C has many of the same Trans, F/Drive parts as the 941B, they also carried over to the D4E.

 

[charles walton]

The final drives have a different tooth count on the Bull and Pinion gears, the Bevel gear and Pinion also has a different tooth count, the Radiators are different as the B has the Trans cooler section, the 941 was first built with the option of lever or peddle steering, if both have peddle steer they will have 14 bolt drums and things will swap around some, lots of part changes between the 2 models so be careful. tctractors p.s. the 951C has many of the same Trans, F/Drive parts as the 941B, they also carried over to the D4E.

Thanks,that helps a lot. So the final drives won't work on each other even if I swapped both sides?

 

[tctractors]

CAT changed the drive line by changing the transmission pinion and bevel gear tooth count and the F/Drive tooth count at the same time, this linked in to the engine BHP increase, it would be best to try to keep things standard is my thought as it is possible to crack the main case with Pinion / Bull gear failing, the thing is a 941 is not the same as a 941B its your shout chap, but these are the facts you wanted to know, the 941 has a 10 tooth pinion, 941B 9 tooth, Bull Gear 941 58 tooth, Bull gear 941B 52 tooth, then you have the Bevel and pinion into the cross shaft change. best of luck tctractors.

 

[charles walton]

CAT changed the drive line by changing the transmission pinion and bevel gear tooth count and the F/Drive tooth count at the same time, this linked in to the engine BHP increase, it would be best to try to keep things standard is my thought as it is possible to crack the main case with Pinion / Bull gear failing, the thing is a 941 is not the same as a 941B its your shout chap, but these are the facts you wanted to know, the 941 has a 10 tooth pinion, 941B 9 tooth, Bull Gear 941 58 tooth, Bull gear 941B 52 tooth, then you have the Bevel and pinion into the cross shaft change. best of luck tctractors.

Thanks,that is exactly the kind of info I needed. Looks like the roller frames and sheet metal is about all that is interchangable between them.

 

[charles walton]

CAT changed the drive line by changing the transmission pinion and bevel gear tooth count and the F/Drive tooth count at the same time, this linked in to the engine BHP increase, it would be best to try to keep things standard is my thought as it is possible to crack the main case with Pinion / Bull gear failing, the thing is a 941 is not the same as a 941B its your shout chap, but these are the facts you wanted to know, the 941 has a 10 tooth pinion, 941B 9 tooth, Bull Gear 941 58 tooth, Bull gear 941B 52 tooth, then you have the Bevel and pinion into the cross shaft change. best of luck tctractors.

How about the transmissions? are the pinion and bevelgear different?

 

[tctractors]

On the 941 and 941B even some of the panels are different, the front grill plates on the 941 have more holes over the plate, the B has a margin with no holes in placed at the top and bottom of the set, this was to limit dirt ingress, the top cowl is vented and un-vented, the lower side plates are made of thicker material on the later B, the fuse box is positioned to the opposite side of the kick plate, I could go on but don't want to come over as a Nerd.

 

[tctractors]

How about the transmissions? are the pinion and bevelgear different?

You cannot be reading my posts chap.