580K died, won't start

[Emerson]

I had the tractor out tonight for the 1st time in a week or so. It started rather hard but I thought maybe it was from sitting? I drove about 100-150meters and it died as I turning into pit. Fuel gauge is reading a little less then half, but I dumped 5 gallons in just in case. It got dark and all I had was a little flash light and my multimeter. I am getting 12v to the injector pump with the key on.

In the last couple weeks I had the problem twice of the tractor dying while I was driving but I thought I traced it to a hack job in the wiring where someone had poorly connected the injector power to the power to the ingnition. Now I'm not sure what it could be.

From what I was told these Cummins only need power to the injector pump in order to start, if I'm getting power then I'm thinking maybe it's fuel related.

there is a chance I got abit of air in the fuel line when I fixed the sending unit since I drained the tank using the fuel line at the bottom of the tank.

Any ideas where to start?

 

[TravellingTec]

You could try to eliminate the fuel system. When it stops just crack your bleed screw loose on top of the filters. If there is no fuel there then you have some kind of restriction.

 

[alrman]

Inline fuel filter Emerson - look there first.

 

[Emerson]

Damm I forgot my Manual at home today, I was going to look at the wiring diagram and see if where these Hacky wires go.

Is the inline filter supposed to be on the bottom close to the outlet of the fuel tank in the hard line? If it is then I don't have one.

 

[mitch504]

If you have power to the fuel cutoff on the injector pump, and the engine is turning fast enough, it's not a wiring problem.

The inline filter is on the lift pump on the engine.

 

[Emerson]

think it was just air.. bleed the lines and it fired up.. ran it for abit and it died again. going to bleed it agian today

 

[Emerson]

SO I went out today and cracked the line and bleed the system until I had no air. Backhoe eventually started and all was good, I used it for 5-10 minutes and it stalled again. Opened the hood and bleed the system again which seemed to take alot longer then the 3 other attempts. took awhile to start but it did and again it ran for 5 min then stalled. I checked the fuel line, and I see no signs of fuel leaking. I wiped clean the lines from the lift pump since it they were dirty and I couldn't tell if they were leaking so I'll check those in abit. Am I missing something?

would it hurt to install a fuel pressure gauge in order to monitor the lift pump pressure? I'm just thinking for down the road when it starts to get weak.

 

[mitch504]

I had almost exactly the same thing once w/ my 580 superK.

I don't even like thinking about it, because I never did solve it to my satisfaction. I know that I changed both filters, but I have a lingering sense that it self resolved.

I know from working on other machines that not seeing fuel leaking from a suction line means little. You can get air in through a leak that fuel won't come out of. You might try wrapping a rag around an air hose and putting a little pressure in your fuel tank.

Good Luck,
Mitch

 

[Emerson]

I had almost exactly the same thing once w/ my 580 superK.

I don't even like thinking about it, because I never did solve it to my satisfaction. I know that I changed both filters, but I have a lingering sense that it self resolved.

I know from working on other machines that not seeing fuel leaking from a suction line means little. You can get air in through a leak that fuel won't come out of. You might try wrapping a rag around an air hose and putting a little pressure in your fuel tank.

Good Luck,
Mitch

Good idea.. I'm heading out now and I'll have a look and see if I see any leaks, worst case is I get it started and bring in to the house so I';m closer to my tools

 

[newcar16]

The In-line filter is along the inside frame rail. looks like a regular automotive fuel filter.

 

[boone]

I had the exact same symptoms on a tractor just a couple of weeks ago. After troubleshooting the fuel supply (filters, lines, screens, primer, etc.) we found the female end of the terminal on the shutoff solenoid wasn't tight although it appeared and looked tight. When turning your key to the acc position and connecting the terminal to your solenoid you should hear it click. On mine, I could wiggle the connector with it fully seated and every once in awhile the solenoid would click. I cleaned the terminal with a pencil eraser and tighten with pliers. Cheap and easy fix. Hope yours is that simple.

 

[Emerson]

I had the exact same symptoms on a tractor just a couple of weeks ago. After troubleshooting the fuel supply (filters, lines, screens, primer, etc.) we found the female end of the terminal on the shutoff solenoid wasn't tight although it appeared and looked tight. When turning your key to the acc position and connecting the terminal to your solenoid you should hear it click. On mine, I could wiggle the connector with it fully seated and every once in awhile the solenoid would click. I cleaned the terminal with a pencil eraser and tighten with pliers. Cheap and easy fix. Hope yours is that simple.

Thanks Boone I'll take a look. I called my Uncle (former owner) he told me the proper way to bleed the system.. I was missing more then a few step. I got it going and used it for abit but had to come back to the house after the wife called.. I hope to get back out tonight but the sun is going down fast.

My inlin efilter has been remove,, should I put one back in the system? I htink I have 1-2 that I used to use on my old ATV.. just a clear filter about 1" in diameter?

 

[willie59]

Are you certain there is no in-line filter, as mentioned by others, some K Case had the filter attached to the lift pump, others had the filter against the left frame rail, have to crawl under machine to spot it.

 

[mitch504]

The inline filter for an atv sounds way to small, and would probably cause a restriction. It needs to be for at least a 3/8 line. The original equipment is more of a fine strainer than a filter, on the suction side of the lift pump, the spin on is the fine filter.

 

[Emerson]

Are you certain there is no in-line filter, as mentioned by others, some K Case had the filter attached to the lift pump, others had the filter against the left frame rail, have to crawl under machine to spot it.

I've been under, spot where the filter should be has been replaced with a rubber hose.

The inline filter for an atv sounds way to small, and would probably cause a restriction. It needs to be for at least a 3/8 line. The original equipment is more of a fine strainer than a filter, on the suction side of the lift pump, the spin on is the fine filter.

I'll look into getting a filter today if I have time to run out during work.

 

[alrman]

They sometimes get some scale caught in the fuel shut off tap, so disconnect fuel line at the lift pump & blow some air back into the tank to be sure it is clear.

 

[Emerson]

4th or 5th or 6th Attempt to bleed the system has failed. I tried tightening different fitting every time. Tomorrow I will get it going and bring it up to the house closer to my tools. Going to pick up the filters tomorrow.

Is the there a chance the lift pump is getting weak and not pushing enough?

 

[willie59]

Like alrman said, remove fuel cap, disconnect line where it connects to lift pump, then blow back through it with air to make sure it's clear. Install an inline strainer in fuel line, Wix 33270 or NAPA 3270, it looks like a typical inline filter but it's actually a 120 mesh strainer. All you want to do is trap large debris that would fowl lift pump, fine debris will pass through lift pump to be trapped by spin on filter.

Check rubber supply hoses carefully. A small pin hole in one can actually suck air yet not drip fuel. Also, how does the supply line connect to lift pump, just a rubber hose to a barb, or does it have a brass nut to a thread connection on lift pump?

 

[Emerson]

Thanks for the filter Number Willie59 NAPA is where I'm heading. I'm going to grab some new rubber fuel line too. The only spot I have a rubber line is where they inline filter should be everything else is a hard line. So it has a compression fitting on the top of the pump.

 

[willie59]

If you have the arrangement that has only hard line except for the small portion of rubber line with filter, that's the early 580K version, shown on bottom of diagram below. One thing to look at is items #2 and #9, they're rubber compression seals for the fuel lines. Age causes them to get hard as a rock, could possibly suck air yet not drip fuel.