580ck 188d no rpm under load

[chevman723]

I have a 1968 580ck with the 188D. When I'm driving it and go uphill I lose rpms. It drops down to idle. In order to get it moving I have to push in clutch rev it and drop clutch. It has also in the last few days become very hard to start. I know that the engine is getting tired but it always starts up and runs.any help would be great.

 

[thepumpguysc]

This is probably redundant but.. the throttle is a straight mechanical link between the pedal and the inj. pump..
With that being said.. your problem is probably in the tranny/shuttle.. sorry but no help from me.. I'm strictly the inj. pump guy..

 

[gusbratz]

sounds like a fuel supply issue, change your filters and blow all the lines out.

 

[chevman723]

I feel that it is a fuel issue as well. I have changed the fuel filters and blown out the supply line to the injector pump. No change at all. I am curious if it could be my injector pump or injectors?

 

[carogator]

Go to Motorkote.com and look at their stiction remover.

 

[Delmer]

Probably not the injectors, it could be the injection pump. One way to know for sure is to tee into the supply line at the injection pump and run a line to a pressure/vacuum gauge in the cab. If the fuel pressure holds steady while the engine slows, then you have your answer. Is there any black smoke when it's slowing down?

Carogator, would you put the stiction remover in the fuel? what's your experience with it?

 

[carogator]

Absolutely, I personally had extra good results on my 12.7 Detroit, did not have to put two injectors in after using it.
I had to run it 600 miles to clear up, but saw others that it did the job in 20-30 minutes. More power and fuel mileage.
If the problem is something besides gummed up pump or injectors, it won't fix it. Still will help otherwise.

 

[chevman723]

Thanks carogator and delmer, I will try a couple things and let you know. If this rain here in northern idaho ever goes away that is.

 

[chevman723]

Delmer, it blows a bit of black smoke all the time but I didn't notice it blowing even more when this happens. Is there a way to hook a fuel pressure gauge to the output of the injection pump to find out if I am losing pressure?

 

[gusbratz]

I had an old 530 case with the 188 diesel in it. it got some mold growing in the filter on the bottom of the tank and did just like you are saying . started fine but fell flat on it's face when you put a load on it. but then again I had a gm 6.2 that would do the same thing.I beat my head against the wall for a long time swearing up and down it must be starving out for fuel. I did everything under the sun including new filters, lines and pulling the pump and putting new seals and drive coupling into it and it would still not load up. finally I had to put a new pump on the 6.2 to fix the issue. (they both ad the rossa master 2db pump)

 

[Delmer]

Delmer, it blows a bit of black smoke all the time but I didn't notice it blowing even more when this happens. Is there a way to hook a fuel pressure gauge to the output of the injection pump to find out if I am losing pressure?

No, leave that to the experts. As far as I know, they only measure the output volume of an injection pump. You could certainly get it tested if you take it off and bring it in, but I don't think this typically done as a diagnosis, just to calibrate/check a rebuild.

Does it blow noticeably LESS black smoke when it slows down? If it blew more smoke and lost power and speed at the same time, that would be leaking injectors causing the fuel to drip and ignite too soon, or possibly there's a way for the injection pump to advance too much?

 

[thepumpguysc]

You say, "when I'm driving".. What does it do WHILE WORKING?? does it die to idle?? and you have to back-off your load?? Just go push a tree.. or put the bucket to the ground..
If the answer is, "no.. its fine".. then you don't have a fuel system problem..
Just for kicks> when was the last time you drained the tank? All the 580ck's w/188's I've seen have a petcock on the bottom of the tank.. hold a container under it and drain to see whats in there..
The last one I drained, I had to get a coat hanger to bust the clog..
If your really leaning towards the fuel supply> its a gravity feed system.. shut off the fuel, get a 1 gallon container of fuel and connect it directly to the pump inlet and go for a SHORT drive..

 

[chevman723]

Thepumpguysc, yes it does it when working if I don't have the throttle set high enough. I have noticed that when in neutral sitting still, if I give it full throttle, it is not very responsive. It takes quite a bit of time to catch up to the throttle position.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Now it makes sense... I was leaning towards a tranny/shuttle problem seeing you said DRIVING..
Did you pour out the filters to get a look at the trash??
Those injectors will loose spring pressure and start to leak/drip into the cylinders when not running, hence the hard start and black smoke.. when they loose spring pressure, they open-up earlier and change the injection timing of the pump.. black/white smoke/hard start and slow throttle response..
They are pretty inexpensive to replace.. ebay around 20.00 each..
IF you didn't want to spend the money, you could in theory, adjust the PUMP TIMING to compensate...

 

[melben]

Pumpguy, sent you a PM, would you please fwd a number where you can be reached to the PM?


Mel

 

[chevman723]

Sorry, I haven't had any time to work on the backhoe. Now we got our first snow of the year so it might be a bit before I get around to it.

 

[thepumpguysc]

83* here and I have to cut grass this weekend.. :drinkup

 

[chevman723]

Pump guy, here's another symptom for you. When I say it is hard to start, it starts up but will only idle, and then die. Sometimes it will idle for 3 or 4 minutes and die. It's doesn't matter what I do with the throttle. I just have to keep starting it until it will respond to the throttle and then it is fine until I shut it off. After I shut it off I have to wait for a while before trying to start it or it won't start at all.

 

[chevman723]

There is also diesel in the oil so I would assume that the injectors are leaking down into the cylinders.

 

[thepumpguysc]

I would remove the top cover, 3 screws.. and have a look around.. I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts you have a fuel contamination problem..
IF you can get it to idle.. crack the injector lines loose, 1 at a time and listen for any engine sound change.. like pulling a spark plug wire..
IF you get to one that doesn't change, you found the problem cylinder..
IF you find a cylinder, that may be the source of the fuel in the oil.. OR it could be the brass pilot tube infront of the pump..
Also, there is a screen under the inlet.. just remove the line and using a 3/4" wrench, back out the screen nut..