287b new injector pump wont send fuel to the injectors

[thepumpguysc]

U r correct.. it should pump fuel weather the csd works or not..

 

[thepumpguysc]

try to get someone to turn the key on and off while u listen to the solenoid clicking..
Otherwise I’m stumped..

 

[Kat287b]

Check out the electrical schematic that I sent to you, Page 13, Grid G-10.
The cold start device is shown as per the snip below. A temp switch with incoming Ignition-controlled power to it on wire 110-GN that when it closes energizes what is labelled as the "cold start Pump As" via wire G455-PK.

View attachment 302033

The cold start switch #2 is located on the end of the cylinder head as shown. I am assuming that it will be on the end of the head closest to the FIP location. It should have a 2-pin connector on it.

IMHO (and unless I'm missing something) you still ought to get smoke from the chimney when cranking even if the cold start device was not working.

View attachment 302034

Well I finally figured it out. I was fooled into thinking the injector pump had fuel all along because when I cracked the return line on the injector pump, I got fuel flow. I noticed that the return line "t's" into the injector return line AND into the return line coming off of the fuel filter and electric assist pump. That line was being backfed thru the "T" to the injector pump making me think the injector pump had fuel coming thru it. Once I saw this, I opened the intake line from the electric assist pump/filter housing and no fuel was coming thru even tho you could hear it buzzing. THe brass port in the electric assist pump has a pinhole in it that the fuel feeds thru to the injector pump. It was full of ice!

So, I got fuel squirting out of the injectors but still no fire. I removed the intake hose off of the turbo and sprayed fuel in there while it was being cranked over and can get it to fire and run that way, so I suspect my timing is off when I meshed the gears up installing the injector pump, I didn't get them lined up right.

Do you have a timing procedure for this? There is a 22 stamped on the engine gear and a 33 stamped on the FIP gear. No other marks to line up timing that I see.

 

[Nige]

Do you have a timing procedure for this?

See the attachment.

Also I think you should invest some time into finding out why the solenoid for the CSD mechanism is not energizing. From one of your photos on the previous page where I'm sure I saw what looked like snow on the FIP the engine coolant should be well below 140 DegF which is the temp at which the coolant switch on the cylinder head closes and powers the CSD solenoid. That is also going to help cold starting.

 

[Kat287b]

Thanks for attachment. You are right in that there should be power to that solenoid until it reaches temp. Its hard to figure out as you said there's nothing in the wiring diagram about a second relay but I will take a look once I get it running and in a warm space!

so, the attachment you sent is for fine tuning the timing. I need to time it as if the pump was removed and reinstalled. In other words, I need to time the gear meshing.

 

[Nige]

Here is the R&I for the FIP and the procedure to set TDC on #1 cylnder.

 

[Kat287b]

Got the timing on but still cant get it to fire. Injectors are all squirting fuel. If I remove the hose from the turbo to the intake and spray fuel into the intake, it fires and runs as I feed it fuel. Why won't it run on it's own fuel?

 

[thepumpguysc]

Pull the throttle to wide open and try it again..

 

[bobatack]

It was full of ice!

This is bad news in a fuel system.
So who knows what else has been frozen and not letting fuel pass thru as needed

 

[Vetech63]

Do you have a space heater to blow in the engine compartment for a while? You may still have an ice problem somewhere else.

 

[Kat287b]

Here is the R&I for the FIP and the procedure to set TDC on #1 cylnder.

well, the timing is on, I even pulled #1 injector to make sure it was actually misting on the business end. It was. #1 cylinder is loaded with fuel. I haven't done a compression check but the compression was good enough to blow the towel off the head when I had the injector out of it's port to test it.

Won't Combust the fuel. Checked the glow plugs- one was dead.

If I spray ether into the intake, it fires.

So, it seems as if the fuel into the cylinders is not getting to combustion point as the ether is at a much higher combustion point.

Short of a compression test, I'm out of thoughts on where to look next.

 

[thepumpguysc]

If I’m not mistaken, the 33 will line up with another 3..??

 

[Vetech63]

well, the timing is on, I even pulled #1 injector to make sure it was actually misting on the business end. It was. #1 cylinder is loaded with fuel. I haven't done a compression check but the compression was good enough to blow the towel off the head when I had the injector out of it's port to test it.

Won't Combust the fuel. Checked the glow plugs- one was dead.

If I spray ether into the intake, it fires.

So, it seems as if the fuel into the cylinders is not getting to combustion point as the ether is at a much higher combustion point.

Short of a compression test, I'm out of thoughts on where to look next.

The engine only needs good compression, heat through compression, and fuel atomized at the right time to fire. One of these your engine isn't meeting. Does the engine smoke at all when you try to start it?

 

[Mobiltech]

I still suspect a timing issue as in possibly 180 degrees out. Can you explain how you know it’s in time?
If it runs while spraying “fuel” in the intake that rules out compression or almost any other problem other than injection timing .

 

[Kat287b]

I still suspect a timing issue as in possibly 180 degrees out. Can you explain how you know it’s in time?
If it runs while spraying “fuel” in the intake that rules out compression or almost any other problem other than injection timing .

I'm with you on 180 out. but not on the engine.

Pumpguy yes, the 33 lines up with 3. The fuel is atomizing, just not at the right time, I get blue smoke out the exhaust but it smells like fuel.

So, how am I 180 out of time? I am thinking that the pump is 180 out. Is it even possible for that to have happened when the guys rebuilt it?

 

[thepumpguysc]

It IS NOT possible for the pump to be 180* out of time..
It fires all its cylinders every complete rotation of its drive shaft..

 

[Kat287b]

It IS NOT possible for the pump to be 180* out of time..
It fires all its cylinders every complete rotation of its drive shaft..

ok, but it is possible for it to be 180 out with the engine? meaning its delivering or firing on the exhaust stroke. I'm going to pull the valve cover and the #1 glow plug and take a look at the valves at tdc. Or is there another way to check the pump timing with the engine timing? I've heard of a pulse indicator but there's got to be a way to check if it's close without one of those.

 

[Mobiltech]

To be sure it’s on tdc number one I think it’s easiest to pull the valve cover or maybe see through oil fill hole on valve cover.

 

[Kat287b]

If I’m not mistaken, the 33 will line up with another 3..??

So, I took another look at timing, The 33 on the idler gear lines up with the other 3 on the IP every 15 revolutions of the IP. so you can't just set the 3's to mesh and call it good. You have 14 chances of being wrong. They have got to line up when the cam and crank lines up with their marks on the idler gear. Since those gear diameters are all different, that happens at different number of revolutions for each one. I don't really want to pull the front engine cover to see when those line up so I can set the pump accordingly, so I am waiting on a bore scope and thinking I can snake that in thru the FIP gear cover and watch for alignment that way.

That's how my timing is off. I don't know if knowing TDC of #1 is the way out of this because where would you set the pump timing to when it is at TDC on #1?

This is an interesting dilemma that could have been easily avoided by marking whichever 2 gears were meshing when the pump was pulled. But then I wouldn't be learning stuff I don't know!

If I knew the number of teeth on the crank and on the cam, I could figure it out mathematically.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Look at the balancer at the front of the engine.. there should be a pointer and slash mark on the pulley referencing TDC #1..
U might have to remove the radiator.??