1973 John Deere 410 backhoe

[leisureexpress]

Hello all, I have been lurking here for the last 6 months and have gotten many of my questions answered. But I have a few more....... I know that many people prefer the Case TLB's from the same vintage, but this is what I ended up with, well that and it is very similar to the first one I started running when I was 12 years old.

On the JD410, it runs good and has strong hydraulics. A couple of the things I want to fix are:

1) The brakes. They both work and the right one is the better of the 2. I can push it down and it takes more pressure than what I think is normal, but it works. The left one is way stiffer, takes even more pressure but will not return to the retracted position. Are there any common things to look for to free up the pedal action of the brakes and linkage?

2) The clutch. It seems to all come in or out in a very short amount of travel - the top 1/2" of travel. It is very hard to do anything smooth in close quarters. The reverser works fine. Maybe it is normal for this machine and I am spoiled with the newer torque converter machines 310D and 310E that I have spent a bunch of time on.

3) Hard starting after stalling. It starts pretty good when cold - from what I gather about this 4219 engine just the fact that it does start by itself when it is 25F with no ether is about as good as it is going to get. The problem is after it stalls warm or cold, the motor will crank over a couple of revolutions and the battery acts dead/weak starter. (I have checked and changed the batteries and had the starter gone through, cleaned the cables/grounding points - thanks to tips found on this forum) About the only way to get it started is to wait about 5 minutes and it fires right back up, that or jump start it. It feels like the hydraulics are loaded, and dragging it down, but no relieving of any of the hydraulics front or back helps. It just takes 5 minutes and it is up and running.

I have a couple of more small issues, but will leave it at this for now. Thanks in advance for any tips!

Happy Holidays!

 

[davidd]

Hey express.

Is it hard start if ya switch it off and then try to restart right away?

Sounds like ya may have a pump or injector problem. Hdyra lock. Fuel left in the cylinder after the stall.

Ease up a little and prevent the stall and it may never evolve to anything else.

D

 

[soso]

check your hyd pump and see if you have a destroke soliniod valve, i think it powers up when you crank it over.
did you try to bleed the brake that is soft? there are two bleeder screws , one on the top of each axle, this worked for me on both problems
regards
tom

 

[willie59]

Not sure myself what that vintage Deere has for a pump and hyd system. I know the 410B has a manual destroke valve on the pump. Try pulling in the loader arm control lever and raise arms while cranking and see if it cranks better. That would tell you if you have a pressure problem causing hard cranking.

 

[norite]

The 310 had a solenoid valve at the pump to bypass it when starting. I think the 410 was similar.

 

[Tony]

Leisure,

Wow...I'm going waaaaay back here, but I may be able to help with your stall/restart issue.

I learned to run a backhoe on your very same machine back in the early 80's...it was my dad's 1972 JD410. I then moved up to his 1980 JD510. I can't remember if the 410 was set up the same way, but the 510 had a lever on the left side of the front console that allowed you to "disconnect" all the hydraulics for ease in cold starting conditions. I *think* the 410 had the same thing...you would grab this flat metal lever and pull it toward you, disengaging the hydraulics, then start the machine and re-engage.

Check it out....I'd be very interested to know if I am recalling the 410 correctly. That was a great little machine.

Happy New Year.

Best,
Tony

 

[leisureexpress]

Thanks to all for the tips!

The machine is about 200 miles from me right now and I will not be able to look at anything for a couple of days. I looked at the JD online parts catalog/fiche and it does mention a "hydraulic pump stroke control valve" and next to it on the list is a "hydraulic pump solenoid valve" I will have to check this for continuity . This sounds like it may well be one of the first things to look at.

I will have to look for that lever on the left side of the pedestal, but I don't *remember* seeing one, or using it waaaay back when I used the other one a long time ago.

As far as not stalling it, well I ran it for 2 hours a short time ago and had one stall. I'd still like to fix it, especially if it is just an adjustment. One can imagine the combination of an on/off clutch, poor brakes (that take your gas foot away from the pedal) make it tricky to not stall.

Any ideas on the brakes? I am thinking that the pivot point needs a close look - I shot some lube in there, but I know that is not the same as a dis-assembly and lube.

Comments on the clutch too? Is it normal to be on/off?

Oh, and fwiw, I know it is a 1973 as I gave the Deere parts guy the S/N and he said it was mfg in Jan 1973 and it says a 410-B on the data plate.

Thanks again to all, I will update what I find on the destroke issue.

Happy New Year!

 

[Deon]

Your 410 is older than my previous 410 but my 1981 410 had a movable arm on the clutch pedal that by rotating it would allow me to press the clutch all the way to the floor before starting. But that was to be used when starting cold so that the transmission would not need to turn with the motor. Also, about your clutch engagement. My 410 had an accumulator that was designed to ease the clutch plates together even if you pop the clutch pedal. It was designed that way so you could shift between reverse and forward at any throttle position. Even wide open without clutching. And it worked well. The accumulator also unloaded and reengaged when you press the clutch. So the clutch only engages about a second after you release. It's impossible to ride this clutch as the accumulator has a mind of it's own. If your accumulator is empty of nitrogen (I think that is what belongs in there) then your clutch may be even harder to control. If you have an accumulator, you should replenish it so as not to damage your drive train when shifting direction.
My accumulator was on the right side of the motor, just in front of the cab. Its a steel cylinder, 3" or 4" in diameter about 12" tall, at least that is what I remember. There is a piston inside the cylinder that floats up and down to compress the nitrogen. I removed mine and brought it in to the dealer to get it refilled.I hope this helps a bit.

 

[leisureexpress]

Deon,

Thanks for the response and info. I am quite sure my unit has this accumulator as I remember it by your physical description.

Sure sounds like it might be the culprit. I will be checking it out too.

Thanks again,
Herb

 

[leisureexpress]

Finally got a look at the hydraulic pump and it appears that somehow the wires got cut off the electric solenoid destroke valve. I will get this working and it sounds like the hard starting problem has potential to be fixed, or at least helped.

 

[225]

I have a 4219 in and air compressor it became hard starting and the fuel transfer pump on side of engine was weak. If you put a pressure gauge on the fuel system after the transfer pump you should get 5 psi out of a good pump. Roosa Master injection pumps us the fuel pressure from the transfer pump to advace the injector pump timing when engine is cranking trying to start,so a weak pump can = hard starting. Also does yours have a manual or electric fuel shut off,if it is electric i have send the electric solenoid in the injector pumps act up when hot,work fine first thing when cold.