188d oil pump O-ring

[Leeland]

Hello again,

I have taken off the oil pump during a out of frame rebuild on a case 188d out of my 68 580ck. I’m not sure if there is a special nylon seal for the oil pump to block transition or if it is just a standard o ring. The old one was very hard, Black and cracked. Could someone suggest a part number, or will my standard o ring suffice. Will attach picture for reference.

 

[RDC_580C]

You shoudd install a new one if the old one is in that shape, as i's an O-ring. Then be careful installing the pump with the new one on there, as it can get sliced when reinstalling the pump into the block since it's a close fit. Just oil it up good and be careful with it. Part # A27365

 

[Leeland]

I have looked into that part number yet I haven’t had luck finding it online or at local shops or case. Maybe it is replaced with a new part number. I know it’s standard procedure to replace the pump during an overhaul, but it’s over 500$ up here in Canada. It did not come with the complete gasket kit. The pump gasket is here though. I can’t just throw on I thick o ring from my own supply?

 

[RDC_580C]

Sorry, the updated part # is 86977728 and just everyone should have that thing.

The parts book specs it as 3/4" x 15/16" x 3/32" if you want to find an alternate replacement.

 

[Juskatla]

If you haven't found a reasonable source for parts, I'd suggest calling Dale Weiss at Tractorstuff. Dale helped me with questions about my 188D overhaul and provided all the parts for that and lots more for the rest of my 580CK. Shipped to me out here via USPS and no customs issues or ridiculous courier fees. Dale has both Case/CNH and quality aftermarket parts at a reasonable price.

e-backhoeparts.com
.

 

[kshansen]

Sorry, the updated part # is 86977728 and just everyone should have that thing.

The parts book specs it as 3/4" x 15/16" x 3/32" if you want to find an alternate replacement.

Those dimensions should work out to a -116 oring any good hydraulic shop should have a bag full of them, heck if you were close to me I probably have some right out in the garage in an old assortment kit!

 

[Leeland]

I am just curious if this is something overlooked or if it is just a basic o ring. I don’t want to loose oil pressure over it, or longevity, but if it’s a special nylon ring, I might get the genuine part. I looked up the alternative part but it’s few and far between in the North. Like I said for now I have installed the main bearings for now and am waiting on the con rods to get the top bronze bushings honed. I have a new oil pressure gauge and copper line plumbed. I want this thing with tons of pressure during initial startup break in .

 

[Leeland]

Anything I search on the specified part number only brings up a spool Oring which I believe is for a valve hydraulic spool. I don’t want to order the wrong part. I will likely go off of the specified parts book dimensions as stated and head to a hydraulic shop. I’m not sure if regular outings will last the same time. I know Orings submerged in diesel will have to be specially made to last and resist swelling. But orings in hot engine oil to me seem very basic, as long as it’s a tight fit, it should be good to go.

 

[RDC_580C]

It's just an O-ring, it's not nylon or anything special. The old one is just that way because it's been in there awhile and is shot.

 

[kshansen]

It's just an O-ring, it's not nylon or anything special. The old one is just that way because it's been in there awhile and is shot.

I might be tempted to use a Viton oring as opposed Buna as they will take the heat a bit better.

And if you are worried getting it in without damage buy a couple extra and do a trial run and then remove to see if it got cut going in or coming out. A little light sanding of the edges it has to slide past might help.

 

[Leeland]

I have a o ring kit and used a think ring for a tight seal. The edges are not a super close tolerance. As soon as the main cap bolts are tightened, the oil pump is pressed against the o ring to block. This should maintain a strong seal. Thanks again for your help. I haven’t encountered a seal that hard before. This may have been one of the many reasons why the #4 rod spun originally. I’d like to think this motor should last another 50 years now that it is 2018 and the other bearings were standard size. I am wondering if it is possible to get custom .0050 bearings so that my old crank is not just a rather large paperweight. I went with a used crank because I am told welding and returning a crank is never a good idea. I just hate to scrap a potential crank.

 

[kshansen]

I just took a quick look and found bearings in 0.010, 0.020 and 0.030.

I'm guessing you meant 0.050 as .0050 would only be five thousands under size.

Yes some orings will get almost hard as glass with age. That is why I suggested the Viton orings, they are good up to something like 450ºF if your oil pump and main bearings get that hot I don't think your first problem is an oring failure!

 

[RDC_580C]

There used to be a 0.002" oversize rod bearing option for rebuilds, but that part number just crosses over to the STD size now. If the rod journal can't be turned for any of the available oversize size options, then replacing it is the better option.

 

[Leeland]

Yes sorry, .050 is what I meant to input. It doesn’t seem like very much. I have had cylinders rebored to .050, otherwise it’s only good for scrap.

 

[Leeland]

The spun rod is currently at around .032, but the scrapes could be .040. .050 would Clean it up.

 

[kshansen]

Yes sorry, .050 is what I meant to input. It doesn’t seem like very much. I have had cylinders rebored to .050, otherwise it’s only good for scrap.

I suppose if you've got the shelf space to store it I'd hang on to it unless scrap prices go up. There is a shop in Syracuse NY that at least used to weld up and grind to standard. I believe we had them do a couple cranks for some oddball engines years ago and never heard of them failing.
A quick Google did show a couple used cranks for around $3-400 and new aftermarket ones in the $6-800 range. But if you do a good job on yours and take care of the engine it will probably out live me at least!

 

[Leeland]

I hear yea, this machine just had its 59th birthday , being a 1968. I’d like to think this rebuild should last another 50 years.

By the way, I’d like to mention I have the old girl back together and fired up.


I little advise for others

Pressure test rad before use. It’s a real Dog to get out. I capped input and output with a used tire tube and hose clamps. Used drain plug for compressed air. It’s super easy to find the holes and even easier to solder with a good quality gun.

Leave pan off until you check for antifreeze leaks.

Mark crank pulley TDC (front) duruing engine assembly

Make sure when installing flywheel to make sure engine is TDC and cross reference bell housing timing window location

double check head bolt torque

Check pump timing using window at exactly tdc on compression #1.

Before and after initial startup check oil level. Raised and lowered oil level is a bad sign. Oil pressure line hookup is on pump side of block and closest to fan. The plug closest to bell housing is coolant

You will probably think I’m crazy but I found it pretty easy to use a big block of wood I shaped to fit (used chainsaw) underneath the pan to split tractor. I will attach pic. I didn’t have a crane, and didn’t need one. The block is light when disassembled.

The only main problem I encountered was worn off timing marks on the cam gear and a leaking head gasket which ended up being a faulty click type torque wrench. I ended up using the needle type and it sealed up the coolant leak.

 

[Leeland]

50 year bday,,,