17 cat 299d2 crank no start.

[hvguy]

2017 cat 299d2 serial FD202537 1780hrs

Had an issue with the pre-filter clogging up previously, today I blew it out and didn't have any issues until it suddenly died backing up, a code popped up for fuel leakage which typically leads to low fuel rail pressure due to the HPFP not getting enough fuel.

I plugged in cat ET and there is no fuel rail pressure. however there is a weird squeaking sound coming from the engine.

See attached video. My guess is the HPFP died.

Picture attached is when I was cranking.

Thanks!

 

[hvguy]

Update! The fuel pump isnt even spinning lol.

I suppose I'll need to take the front case apart.

 

[hvguy]

The idler gear holder broke?!?

 

[hvguy]

This is the fuel pump being spun with a wrench. Should it be this difficult?

https://youtube.com/shorts/hjE1tfGClGM?feature=share

 

[hvguy]

And I found a broken tooth on the HPFP

 

[hvguy]

picked up all new gears, a new pump, gaskets, filters and that bracket for the intermediate gear today. ($2828)

I thought I had it figured out this morning in the shower... my thought was the pump gear had a tooth break off from poor manufacturing, wedged between the pump and the intermediate gear, bent the pump shaft and then broke the intermediate gear bracket.... but upon further inspection of the new pump... that shaft is like 1" in diameter. I highly doubt that's what happened..

Earlier that day I was having low rail pressure issues and found out the pre filter on the lift pump was packed with some sort of red particulates, not having a spare, I blew it out and reassembled. After that I ran a flow test on the lift pump and fount it to be supplying MUCH more fuel than it ever will need.

I spoke with an old diesel tech in my area and he said he never fills up with any sort of biodiesel contaminated fuel... apparently it'll sit in these machines and get stale really fast. Since my machine only gets maybe 300 hours a year, this would line up.

Before I install the new pump, I have an external 120v pump and filter system (5 micron) that I'm going to run tonight recycling the fuel through; along with some biocide to hopefully catch the all the junk in the tank since there is no way I can pull it for cleaning.

Dump the fuel tomorrow and refill with good fresh fuel that has ZERO biodiesel in it, and always add some stanadyne additive to prevent this disaster from happening again.

Wish me luck.

-Hvguy

 

[Chrisso]

This is the fuel pump being spun with a wrench. Should it be this difficult?

https://youtube.com/shorts/hjE1tfGClGM?feature=share

Holy cow!

The red particles you found in the pre filter could've possibly been rust. Was there any water in the separator?

Big thankyou for sharing such detail.

 

[hvguy]

Holy cow!

The red particles you found in the pre filter could've possibly been rust. Was there any water in the separator?

Big thankyou for sharing such detail.

Nope. No water. Plastic tank with all stainless fittings. That's definitely some sorry of algae or..... Something.

I've about got it back together. I put some red locktite on the pump nut and gave her hell while someone held the gear... Hoping it'll be enough.

I'm about ready to pump the tank out and crank it.

When I busted the gear off the old pump, I did notice the roll pin was smashed like the gear tried to rotate on the shaft, I'm guessing at this point the pump locked up, a tooth broke off the pump gear, broke the intermediate gear brackets and stopped.

Since there's no core on the pump, I'll dissect it next week.

Wish me luck.

 

[hvguy]

Got everything installed, fuel additive added, fresh fuel, prime the system with all new filters, blow out all the lines, now it won't start at all. I have to go home and get my computer to see if it's even building pressure.

Any ideas?

 

[hvguy]

Well, when it's cranking, the return line from the fuel rail coming from the fuel pressure regulator is pouring fuel out of it, therefore it's not building enough pressure to inject. Also they conveniently don't sell the fuel pressure regulator separate from the fuel rail.

a friend of mine mentioned I might have an issue with an injector returning way too much fuel and it will never build pressure, he mentioned to remove each one of the fuel lines and cap it off to see if the pump will build pressure pointing out that the issue is an injector that is stuck open, returning fuel.

My money is on the bad fuel rail since I can't build over 86 psi cranking.

Whoever put this curse on me, please stop, I learned my lesson whatever it is.

 

[hvguy]

The plot thickens. I unplugged the high pressure side of the pump, and nothing comes out when cranking. I'm unplugging the battery and letting it sit. This makes no sense.

 

[hvguy]

Checked power or anything dc coming to the top of the pump and there isn't any sort of signal. I guess my issue is up the line to the computer.

Also when I was cranking I noticed the throttle said 0% even if I was moving the throttle knob.

I'm at a loss

 

[hvguy]

So, I verified the electronic device on top of the pump is definitely a solenoid and it's not getting power when cranking. So somehow the computer is at fault.

Took the old one part of the way apart. It's just an element pump and spring like an old Detroit.

 

[hvguy]

So I jumped 12v to the pump and got it running. Unfortunately it flagged a code for over pressure since I'm sure the pump was full stroke lol. But it does work however my computer is either not controlling it, or the wire is broken.

Gonna dig through the service manual.

 

[hvguy]

Upon further inspection, It appears the orange wire is ground, and the black or gray wire on the top of the pump is the signal.... the orange ground is also shared to the pressure regulator on the rail. The other line for the regulator or (press. relief drvr.) as its called, is pin 70.

Im going to verify both grounds are connected to each other and then verify they all go back to the ECM.

Attached is a schematic that outlines this.... im a little confused as to why they have 2 pins dedicated for ground and signal for the pump.

also if anyone is trying to find that pump on the schematics, its called a supply pump

 

[Nige]

im a little confused as to why they have 2 pins dedicated for ground and signal for the pump.

The boost pressure sensor and cam position sensor shown on your snip are both PWM sensors. They require an external power source (+5v) that is supplied by the ECM and a ground back to the ECM. The output signal from the sensor, also to the ECM, goes not surprisingly via the signal wire. However neither of those aforementioned sensors has anything directly to do with the signal from the ECM to the supply pump which is only via 2 wires.

 

[hvguy]

I've verified that the ground and signal is making it to the computer on all pins. I guess the computer has died? Seems like and expensive fix just to find out.

I did however manage to limp it out of the field with an external power supply.
https://youtube.com/shorts/Hpr7_hbBzts?feature=share

 

[hvguy]

The boost pressure sensor and cam position sensor shown on your snip are both PWM sensors. They require an external power source (+5v) that is supplied by the ECM and a ground back to the ECM. The output signal from the sensor, also to the ECM, goes not surprisingly via the signal wire. However neither of those aforementioned sensors has anything directly to do with the signal from the ECM to the supply pump which is only via 2 wires.

That snip was a reference to what they call the fuel pump and it's associated wires.

Any idea where I can get an ecm tested at lol. It's weird to not have any codes and the only thing not working is the pump signal wires.

 

[Nige]

Any idea where I can get an ecm tested at

The only thing that springs to mind is to install it on another identical machine and see what happens.

 

[Simon C]

Please keep letting us know what you find as we all would like to know end causes and solutions. Thanks again.
Simon C