One of the 16M's at our mine does a funny thing. While light blading, going down hill in either second or third it will upshift as high as fifth with no warning. The grader is not in an overspeed condition. Cat reps say to shift to first gear but that doesn't address the issue. Anybody got any ideas?
-
Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
16M shifting issues
- Thread starter minerguy
- Start date
Dad5
Well-Known Member
Do you have ET?
BDFT
Senior Member
I don't know about 12's or 14's but the 16M I run is a friggin' nightmare. Broke down all the time and only 8000 hrs. I'd like to drop the POS off the highwall.
Priority 1, make sure the machine is set up with the correct flashfiles, the issues that have been addressed through upgraded flashfiles are many and varied, get these checked by the dealer first but just make them bring the latest with them when they go to the machine.
Will do. I have to admit that although the M's are great to operate they just are too problematic. The last three mines I've been at have had all kinds of problems, big and small. The H series spoiled us as they were so dependable. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be an alternative on the market today. Cold weather is definitely not a friend..see steering...
Thanks for the advice.
M series are going OK these days, sure they should have been going OK about 5 years ago but it is what it is. You can also set up what grade hyd oil is in the machine by programming the ECM with the info, the "brains" will then alter things to provide more optimum performance, get this checked and rectified if it is not correct as per the oil you are running, and get it checked you have the right oil for the temperature you are working in too. The latest software gets rid of nuisance fault codes especially with the steering, if you continue to get codes you will have to much movement in steering joints most likely but get a steering calibration done after installing new software if that is what ends up happening and also get a wheel alignment done, go through all the basics first, after that you may have a tire issue or an internal leak on the steering cylinders.
You can check the cylinders fairly easy, circle the blade around onto the front tyre and have it touching top and bottom, then steer into the blade so you stall the steer function out and then listen for oil bypass in each cylinder, a heat gun can also be used to check if there is heat generation where the oil is being "squeezed" through.
Good luck.
You can check the cylinders fairly easy, circle the blade around onto the front tyre and have it touching top and bottom, then steer into the blade so you stall the steer function out and then listen for oil bypass in each cylinder, a heat gun can also be used to check if there is heat generation where the oil is being "squeezed" through.
Good luck.
Dad5
Well-Known Member
Gavin84w has nailed it! I work in a mine that has 2 16Ms and 2 14Ms and I'm not going to tell you that they have been absolutley trouble free but I will say that if all updates are done and proper fluids are run for the operating conditions they will will work.
I think you guys might be onto something with the oils. This is a brand new grader and is a lot farther north than it expected to be at. Some of the other new equipment came up with summer type oils. Doesn't pan out in -40 and colder weather. Headed back today so will follow up on your suggestions. Merry Christmas.
Dad5
Well-Known Member
minerguy I see you are in Manitoba. The mine I work in is in Northern Labrador, probably about the same temps. The Operation and Maintenance Manual calls for SAE 0W-20 in the hydraulic system for temps down to -40C. There are some interesting recomendations for other systems on that machine as well. On some machines there were "winter front" type covers that snapped on over the air inlets for the coolers.
All the best.
Aussie John
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2009
- Messages
- 99
- Location
- Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
- Occupation
- Maintenance Planner, mining equipment
Regarding 16M transmissions, I have seen three to date now where the transmissions have failed big time before 10,000 hours. The latest blew a flywheel coupling with metal going through the system and filled the suction screen up with pieces of spring and coupling plate. According to the Cat fitters changing out the tranny, there is an PIP update now where the flywheel and coupling are replaced. One of the changes are that 19 ½" bolts mount the coupling to the flywheel instead of 12 ½" bolts.
Nige
Senior Member
The PIP to which you refer (if it's the one I think it is) covers upgrading the transmission clutch pistons, replacing the torsional coupler, plus also the flywheel if necessary. The root cause was some machines apparently got out of the factory with bolts that were improperly tightened. We had a 16M with a tranny failure at the back end of last year (the last of ours where the tranny hadn't yet been updated) and the whole upgrade was done at one hit. I may be wrong but I don't recall the torsional coupler being damaged but it was changed anyway and the bolted joint was reworked as per the program.
I'm with Gav. When we got our first 16M's in early 2009 they were a POS. It took Cat until late 2013 (pretty much 5 years as Gav says) to get the design issues that should have been fixed at the prototype/Field Follow stage out of them. Our 4 x 16M's are currently running at something like 86% availability calculated on the basis that downtime includes everything - such as refuelling, all preventive maintenance, GET changes, etc. I don't think that's bad myself but it's taken far too long to get to this point IMHO.
I'm with Gav. When we got our first 16M's in early 2009 they were a POS. It took Cat until late 2013 (pretty much 5 years as Gav says) to get the design issues that should have been fixed at the prototype/Field Follow stage out of them. Our 4 x 16M's are currently running at something like 86% availability calculated on the basis that downtime includes everything - such as refuelling, all preventive maintenance, GET changes, etc. I don't think that's bad myself but it's taken far too long to get to this point IMHO.
pabear52
Active Member
- Joined
- May 21, 2008
- Messages
- 40
- Location
- Tasmania
- Occupation
- Pipeliner, Earthmover, Miner,Dragline operator
I had trouble with a 14M last year, it would change up but not back unless you went to neutral and start again. turned out it was wiring thru articulation loom. took abit of tracking down by dealer but ok now. my two cents.
pabear52
Active Member
- Joined
- May 21, 2008
- Messages
- 40
- Location
- Tasmania
- Occupation
- Pipeliner, Earthmover, Miner,Dragline operator
By the way. these M's are brilliant to run and I would turn my nose up at anything else. Not alot of downtime with over dozen M's on job at one time pipeline-ing. brilliant.
Scrub Puller
Senior Member
Yair . . . pabear52. Is that pipeline in Tassy mate?
Cheers.
Cheers.
Hi all and thanks for your input. It seems as though it was an oil issue. The high Arctic will find the weak points on man or equipment. Good discussion about it all though. I've been fortunate??? enough to operate everything from a 112 through to the M Series over the years. I'll sit in a M any day over everything else..that's if i wasn't tied to a desk most of the time.
Cheers all.
Cheers all.