16b engine repower

[OCR]

16b engine repower:

Same here, 25c... good looking job... :thumbsup


OCR

 

[Neil D]

Thanks for posting-keep them coming:cool2:cool2

Neil

 

[td25c]

More pics.

Had a member message me about some details on the repower job.I went back to the thread and realized ....yes...I have some pictures of it and a few details but still vague for the most part. The key element was the adapter plate & mounting the fiat flywheel to the cummins crank.I started out with a carboard template for the adapter plate. If you notice the cummins crank uses 6 bolts, we needed 8 . This was accomplished by bottoming out 6 bolts in the crank then cutting them of flush at the surface.Then had to machine the fiat flywheel out a little so it would slip on the cummins crank. Now the 8 new holes could be marked,drilled, and threads tapped. I decided to use a high grade all thread for studs & locktite when we installed them.Then spent some time with the torque convertor housing C-clamped to the new adapter plate using a dial indicator to index it all so I could then drill the new dowel pin holes. Wasent realy that complicated but needed a little thought.

By doing it this way everything behind the adapter plate remained stock equipment .I had to modify the front engine mount a bit but was no big deal. Also had to modify & replumb the engine and transmission oil coolers .Added a belt driven engine oil scavenging system . It wasent a 2 or 3 day job....... We probably worked on it a month on and off untill it was completed.It realy wasent that expensive buying the cummins engine used,and some machine work.Most of it was my time thinking about it and fabricating what we needed. But was well worth it in the long run as now the dozer had a more common engine that is easy to get parts for and wont break the bank when you go to overhaul it. Any questions holler and I'll try to answer them.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . td25c. Nice job mate.

I always thought the sixteens were a real nice tractor, easy to move but big enough to do something when you got there.

As a scoop (scraper) tractor the earlier ones were the ducks guts and I was surprised to see in an article the six-speeds only did 5.8mph . . . I recalled it to be much faster.

With a blip and double shuffle and maybe a judicious bump on the PCU you could shift up and down on the fly. I have good memories of moonlighting on a road job at times hauling near a mile.

Cheers

 

[td25c]

Hey thanks Scrub. I agree the 16 is a nice size rigg.... Not to bad to move but big enough to move something at the jobsite. Heck we even slopped some color on it few years ago.

 

[HATCHEQUIP]

TD Ive got a friend down the road that's been asking me about doing something like this on a fiat 21B

 

[td25c]

It can be done HATCHEQUIP The 21B uses the same 844 engine only it was after cooled & rated at higher horsepower.

 

[DPete]

Nice work, innovation keeps the old brain cell working. I always liked the looks of Fiat Allis dozers, they are scarce here though, never got to see one in action

 

[td25c]

Thanks Dpete and could not have said it better about Innovation exercising the brain cell . I actually done the cummins repower about 16 years ago and so far has stood the test of time. I have overhauled the cummins once sence the repower. What got it all started was shortly after I bought the 16B the crankshaft broke on a job. I looked at some used cranks and found small cracks forming around the oil gallys and dident like that. Called the Fiat-Allis dealer & priced a new crank ..........$5,500..........Dident like that idea either. Thats when I made the decision on the cummins engine. Ended up buying a 1983 Ford CL 9000 with a 300 cummins from my buddy for $2,500 and drove it home . Luckily I was an equipment machanic by trade so did most of the work myself. Also had worked for a fellow when in high school that was always fabricating or building something in the shop . Another fellow I have always admired is John Kinzenbaw , Founder of Kinze Manufacturing. www.kinze.com/about.aspx He also done engine conversions starting in the late 1960's installing 8-V71 detroits in the John Deere 5020's www.kinze.com/a-history-of-innovation.aspx

 

[Andrew_D]

I was wondering about the same kind of repower for my HD11B (the original 11B, not the Series II). Displacement-wise, an 8.3L Cummins would be just right. But at 300HP, that's a fair bit more HP than the 516 Buda put out (120HP) so I'm not sure that the tranny and drivetrain could sustain it. So now I'm thinking that a 5.9L Cummins might be a better option. It started out around 160HP in 1989 Dodge Rams, so should be about right.

So far the 516Buda is still running, but it always good to be thinking ahead...

Andrew

 

[td25c]

I think a 5.9 Cummins would be a great transplant engine in a HD11 Andrew_D:thumbsup

 

[D6 Merv]

Is a chap on youtube repowered his old HD11B with a 6V71 I think, has got a few videos of her discing; but the noise !!!! [music ?? to some]
That was a great job of repowering that 16B. Seems for some reason Fiat Allis had some 844 crankshafts cast in japan, these are the ones that break, that and something to do with the crank counterweights, later ones had more weights and didn't crack, something like that anyway a AC fanatic told me all about them. All those Allis series B tractors had a great look to them.

 

[zafar]

yup this picture is quite interesting

http://www.qu.edu.sa/en

http://www.qu.edu.sa/en

 

[Queenslander]

Seems for some reason Fiat Allis had some 844 crankshafts cast in japan, these are the ones that break

Iam not 100% certain, but I believe some of these tractors were manufactured in Korea.
There is a gentleman importing components here from ex Korean army machines.
Cheers, Greg

 

[td25c]

Is a chap on youtube repowered his old HD11B with a 6V71 I think, has got a few videos of her discing; but the noise !!!! [music ?? to some]
That was a great job of repowering that 16B. Seems for some reason Fiat Allis had some 844 crankshafts cast in japan, these are the ones that break, that and something to do with the crank counterweights, later ones had more weights and didn't crack, something like that anyway a AC fanatic told me all about them. All those Allis series B tractors had a great look to them.

Thats the way I heard it as well D6 Merv . My crank was made in japan. Every used crank I looked at also had small cracks developing around the oil gallys. The 17,000 844 engine ran great & made good power but on mine could not keep that crankshaft in one piece. I sure as heck wasent going to pay $5,500 on a new crank that might do the same over time. Although the new crank may have been the better improved model. I to liked the overall looks of the B series tractors. They push great as well

 

[td25c]

Adapter plate stories

I have to correct myself on the thickness, I mentioned in an earlier post about the adapter plate being 2inch thick . We actually started with a 1-1/2 thick plate that was torch cut out to shape. After it was cut I noticed it warped abit from the heat so we put it in a press to straiten it best we could. Then took it to a machine shop and had them mill both sides of the plate so we had a nice true surface on both sides. The finnished adapter plate thickness is 1- 5/16 inch.

 

[td25c]

Transmission oil cooler

Had to do a little fabricating on the Fiat- Allis oil cooler. The original cooler had two cores,one for the engine oil and the other for the transmission. Both cores are identical. I droped the bottom core & welded hose fittings on the endcaps so I could plumb it to the block & cummins engine oil cooler. Also added a few pictures of the front engine mount & air cleaner mount. Both were pretty strait forward to deal with. Had to enlarge the center cradle on the front motor mount abit as front seal hub was larger on the cummins engine. also had to move the mount forward on the tractor frame about 2 inches & drill new holes. Air cleaner was pretty simple, added angle iron at the rear of the cummins and welded a small piece of steel that bolted in to the rocker box. Used 3 inch exhaust pipe for the turbo to the inner cooler and pvc pipe from the air cleaner to the turbo. LOL No modifications were needed for the starter as the 16-B used the same series delco starter as most trucks only the 16 starter is 24 volt.

 

[HATCHEQUIP]

What no cleanout on the sewer line :tong that's a good way to solve that problem but can you imagine if you ever sell and someone goes back to the dealer and hands them that piece and wants another

 

[td25c]

Lol HATCHEQUIP ..............Dont even start with the sewer line jokes Yeah .......... just walk in the local hardware store and the "know it all" guy behind the counter asks ..... " What is this PVC pipe fitting being used for? " Just say it's the intake pipe from the air cleaner to the turbo on my 1974 Fiat - Allis 16-b. Then comes the silence and deer in the headlights stare LOL :lmao

 

[HATCHEQUIP]

but can you imagine the look on the fiat dealer