Motor-Grading Techniques

[Runamuk]

Guys

Great thread,,...just one point of clarification regarding the discussion on grease or no grease on the circle. The recommendation is for grease on the circle pinion regardless of operational conditions, dirt, sand, etc. There is extensive data showing the benefits of greasing the circle pinion even when working in the most abrasive materials. Let me know if anyone wants the details.

Good point, I had to go down to our shop for clarification from the operators manual. I'm new to grading 2 1/2 years and new to the forum. I enjoyed finding out that the circle pinion needs grease. lol I have been applying coat after coat of dry graphite before operation. Not to many "operators" where I am, though some have been running them 30+ years. Not to belittle them, I just appreciate those few exceptional operators. Anyway, thanks everyone for all the info.

I do have one question though, I was reading the techniques from the link about using a graders features to build roads better, and I could not see or read the picture illustrations on the page, does anyone know the source of those pictures so I can find a copy I can read and see.

Will

 

[Runamuk]

Good point, I had to go down to our shop for clarification from the operators manual. I'm new to grading 2 1/2 years and new to the forum. I enjoyed finding out that the circle pinion needs grease. lol I have been applying coat after coat of dry graphite before operation. Not to many "operators" where I am, though some have been running them 30+ years. Not to belittle them, I just appreciate those few exceptional operators. Anyway, thanks everyone for all the info.

I do have one question though, I was reading the techniques from the link about using a graders features to build roads better, and I could not see or read the picture illustrations on the page, does anyone know the source of those pictures so I can find a copy I can read and see.

Will

I accidentally deleted the part where no one around here greases the circle pinion.

 

[durtmvr]

Remember guys the circle has teeth 360 degrees. Those back teeth aren’t for looks, they’re made to be used. The practice of finishing a cul-de-sac in reverse or maybe even getting it close (my choice) makes great sense if you’re not running an all wheel drive machine. The forces created by the moldboard angle and laterally moving material over comes the front tires traction coefficient many times. It only takes about 60 seconds to turn it around. I can turn our 16 foot moldboard on our 14H around in about 70 seconds, just over a minute. That time includes the time spent pulling the pin and repositioning the linkbar. I always do it on the right side, I put the pin in the far right hole, swing the drawbar, circle and moldboard up beside the machine with the moldboard facing straight up at the sky, circle the moldboard clockwise and side-shift the left end out over the top of the right front tire completely retracting the cylinder (H Series), then retract the left lift cylinder, extend the right lift cylinder, keep rotating clockwise and retracting the centershift cylinder at the same time. It’s all simultaneous motion. This brings the right end of the moldboard (soon to become the left) under the S bend in the main frame while the left end (soon to become the right) is rolling right down behind and beside the right front tire. As soon as I get the moldboard back under the main frame I reposition the linkage if necessary. If the machine is equipped with grade/slope control then the cable to the rotation sensor has to be specially routed or it will get torn right in half. Every machine I operate I take the time to reroute the cable so that it’s possible to turn the circle and moldboard around. The picture below shows the way I generally park the machine at night; circle and moldboard facing back with the tires off the ground. This position exposes the front circle drive teeth so we can apply grease every day (like the book says). These are the teeth that are being used 99% of the time we’re working. Every couple days I scrap off the old dirty grease using a drywall spatula and every couple weeks I wash the teeth with solvent. This positioning also gets the weight off the tires at night. Don’t want any flat spots in the tires come morning. Many times we get in and have to start finishing to hubs first thing in the morning. In the last training class I taught I made it manditory to graduate. They had to be able to proficiently reposition the linkage, clean the top of the moldboard using the linkage, pull a back slope and park the machine at night with the moldboard facing back.

In the other pictures, which are dark, but if you look closely you can see the moldboard is turned around on the 16M. This works great for squeegeeing the water on top of the ice and filling the small holes and accelerating the freeze time. You can rub the ice (snow & water mixture) and not cut into it. Turning the moldboard around on this 16M with a 2 foot extension requires a little more caution and it helps if you run the front tires up on a pile, this makes it easier to swing the moldboard extension under the steps. It would be real easy to tear the steps right off the machine if you don’t know what you’re doing. That applies to any grader not just the 16M.

I also turn the moldboard around for finishing away from bridge abutments and will explain this more in detail later. I turn it around and articulate for cleaning some wet ditches also. Like I said they put those teeth there for a reason.

I will photograph this entire procedure step by step when I get time and post it. I will also add more to this thread in general, but right now I have to get ready to travel again.

This part is for all you younger guys that like adventure; I’m actually on my two weeks R&R from the Chevron project right now, but got a phone call yesterday morning. We were just awarded a hazardous cleanup project off the Northern coast of Alaska. It’s an old “Defense Early Warning” radar site. So I have to go get baseline blood work done today then spend the next 4 days in training, yeap right through the weekend so that we can be ready to fly back to Deadhorse the first of next week. We are going to haul the material 50 miles across the sea ice back to Prudhoe Bay where it will be put in special containment. I look at this as another great adventure, which I get to be a part of and the pay is fantastic (so is the food). They don’t call me to go on these details because they like the way I look or the things I say, they call me for one reason and one reason only; because I can operate a motor grader. My father told me over 30 years ago while I was riding in a grader with him and watching his every move, “Get good on one of these son and you will never have to look for a job”. That statement has rung true so many times in my life that I’ve lost count. It’s a great career! Don’t ever pass up the chance to get on one.

Regards, Randy

Very good post Randy. I reverse grade all the time. I have had many a "foreman" or "super" get pissed off about it too. I don't understand why. I was doing some today in a retention basin corner where the wall spoils were piled up. I needed the dirt in the street near the retention basin and the walls needed backfilled and the retention needed cleaned up after drywell spoils and some RCP installation. The first photo is of the finished product. Wish I had taken a photo of the train-wreck that was present before I started. The loose material and the volume of the material would not allow timely removal of the dirt. Grading forward would have only put my steer tires in the wall. This retention took me 45 minutes to clean up. I started grading backwards from the corner and established slope grade on each wall, then I established grade on the floor in the corner. I then turned back 180 and pushed it all into the street cleaning up my slopes and building the floor as I went. Only big pain in the butt was the utilities located behind curb, a drywell and I had to save an RCP marker (for a future headwall) which I swing tied to the wall. The photos don't really do it justice. Looks pretty rough, but it will dress up nice in a few minutes with a box grader.

 

[durtmvr]

I also use backwards blading to key in the corners of big step pads. It is easier to have 1 correction when your front wheels drop off of the slope instead of making 2 sets of corrections when each set of drivers comes off the slope. Also very useful and necessary when working around curb, especially green curb. I use grading backwards in many situations making grade behind the curb. Parkway grading behind the curb or walls around utilities and in tight places. I always finish my AB and Subgrade around aprons in reverse. Again, it is easier to make 1 correction instead of several.

A few months ago, the dirt crew had jumped a fill a bit too soon. The perimeter fencing was not removed before they started to fill the edge of the pads. The dirt rolling over the side of the fill laid over the construction fence. The only plausible way I could see to remove the dirt without damaging the fence panels was to roll the dirt up the slope in reverse hanging the steers downhill. Had this not been done like this, certainly, my drives would have ended up on top of the fence damaging the fence and probably the blade. 30 panels were removed in 3 hours buried under 2 to 3 feet of dirt. None were destroyed.

Another useful place is around existing walls where a steep slope is called for from the wall to the pad you are sitting on. I like to pull them backwards using my steer tire to strike of the hinge and use the tire width as an offset from the wall. Taking the back of the machine out of the equation makes the chance of sticking the ripper carriage into the wall. The visibility is also better and being articulated in such a manner it allows an extremely steep angle on the board, keeps the board and front steer from "skating" into the wall. It is possible to lay all 14' of board on a 1' tall slope making the "ditch" at the toe very shallow. This very shallow undercut will not require much compaction and will be lost when pulling the dirt from the toe simply by running over the toe with the drive tire.

 

[durtmvr]

Question I am a green horn when it comes to running a grader, I run a cat143h, I struggle with crowning a road, I do not have a bubble or slope control on the grader, is there a way to guess, say a 4% slope would be without a bubble or a cross slope?

Get some Velcro from WalMart. I prefer the thick industrial Velcro. Buy a cheap torpedo level from Home Depot or Harbor Freight tools. Apply the Velcro to the ledge between your tach and speedometer. Put the little torpedo level there on the flat of the black plastic panel. 4% should be cutting about 1/4 of your bubble off over the outside line. Cheap, quick little guide to make sure you are staying near grade.

 

[Dwan Hall]

In hang a nut on a string from the top of the windshield frame about 18 in. Long. Put marks on the windshield glass with a sharpie. Works for me.

 

[farmer45]

When I was running our township grader I had a cheap level made for leveling a motor home stuck on the windshield. It told me how many inches one side was higher than the other. I figured the width of the grader was somewhere close to the width of a motor home. Close enough to give me an idea of where I was anyway. It also came with one to measure the slope from front to back. I installed that also but didn't use it very often. After a while you will get a pretty good feel for where you need to be.

 

[Ole Gal]

I am new to grading and purchased an old Galion. It has hydraulic controlled blade and front wheels and everything else is manual. I am interested in the discussion about the bubble or slope control to achieve the desired slope in the road. I have no accurate way of telling what my blade setting is after I start grading, so will a slope control help if I do not know when my blade is level? Is there a way to "zero" the blade so I can tell when it is level? I am trying to get the connection between the cab being plumb and the blade being level. On my old grader, this does not happen. Presently, I just start work from the section of road that is close to the desired grade and work from there and eyeball the work. I jump down to look at the grade from ground level from time to time. I am hoping someone will have some advice for helping to get the correct slope.

 

[farmer45]

I am new to grading and purchased an old Galion. It has hydraulic controlled blade and front wheels and everything else is manual. I am interested in the discussion about the bubble or slope control to achieve the desired slope in the road. I have no accurate way of telling what my blade setting is after I start grading, so will a slope control help if I do not know when my blade is level? Is there a way to "zero" the blade so I can tell when it is level? I am trying to get the connection between the cab being plumb and the blade being level. On my old grader, this does not happen. Presently, I just start work from the section of road that is close to the desired grade and work from there and eyeball the work. I jump down to look at the grade from ground level from time to time. I am hoping someone will have some advice for helping to get the correct slope.

Read the previous posts on this subject. As you will see there some ways to measure slope that are cheap to free or you can get more expensive gauges if you like. The first grader that I ran had a torpedo level on it and the other two I mounted a cheap motor home level. Both worked well for what I needed.

 

[Ole Gal]

Thanks for your reply, farmer45. I do intend to make a slope gauge. Do it yourself builders in the early days, sometimes used a hose with water in it to find level on all 4 corners of a house. I plan to use 1/2 " clear tubing with red transmission fluid in it and mount it down the left side , across the bottom of the window and up the right side. I will find surface I know is level and park the grader there and then mark the tubes where the fluid is for level. I will cap the ends of the tubing and make air holes so the fluid can move up and down. Since the cab is four foot wide, it will be fairly easy to figure a slope. I can mark the tubing in inches and know what slope I have for every four foot. But even though I know what slope the machine sits at, how can I tell where my blade is? I have no experience with new graders and very little with my old one. Do they have instruments or controls that indicate blade level? If I park on level ground and lower the blade to the ground, I can raise the blade on one side and see how many inches the blade is up on one side and how much the other side went down. Actually the work I am doing now on the family tree farm does not require a precise slope, I just like making the dirt lane properly graded. The lane has not been touched for 40 years and has some serious erosion on some of the hills, and the slope to the wrong side of the lane. At first, I ran the grader with the wheels in the rut, a foot below grade, until I got some soil moved over to fill the rut. (Now I am having fun) When I back up, I keep the wheels on top of the loose soil to pack it in the rut. (I have no packer) Eventually I get a decent uphill grade and a ditch on the correct side. I guess only time will tell if I have too much slope for that slippery red clay dirt in VA. As I try to finish and produce a lane that will be good for another couple of years, I want to measure the slope. If the slope gauge tells me the grader cab is level or not level, this does not tell me the blade position. The grader could be leaning way over as when I start the job and the blade might be nearly level. I hope I do not sound argumentive. I am just learning to grade and there is something I do not understand about getting my blade to the correct slope but I am not sure what that is so I can ask properly. I'll try. How does a slope gauge in my cab help me keep my blade at the desired slope?

 

[51kw]

The way the slope meter works is that when you are moving forward the back wheels and the slope meter show what your blade did 10 ft ago. Need more or less slope adjust the blade. I do not know of anything that will show what you are asking.

 

[clintm]

why not use your water level idea on the circle .you would have to attach something up right from the circle to hold the end's up(round rod,rebar,angle iron) but it would give you your cross slope at the blade in real time.

 

[Ole Gal]

Thanks for your reply, 51kw. At least now I know that is something I will have to learn by experience.

 

[Ole Gal]

Thanks for your reply, 51kw. At least now I know that is something I will have to learn by experience. clintm, I like the idea of putting a gauge on the circle. I will look at the grader today to find a good location. I will post a picture if I can design something that works. Thanks.

 

[farmer45]

The slope of the cab will be the slope of the road. You don't really need to know the slope of the blade in relation to the cab part of the grader. I think that you will find that you will have to adjust the slope of the blade as you grade. If the slope of the road which will be the slope of the cab gets to much you will have to lower the heel of the blade or raise the toe or a combination of both. If the slope gets to flat you will do the opposite. If you are grading a narrow road or lane and trying to put a crown in the middle while straddling the center of the road with the back of the grader that is difficult to do. I don't know how to tell you to do that other than to eyeball it. I went to several seminars on how to care for gravel roads and one thing they all stressed was not to straddle the center line with the back of the grader. That wasn't to hard to do on the roads that I graded but on occasion someone would ask me to touch up their driveway that wasn't wide enough to do that. That was always a challenge.

 

[Ole Gal]

I just returned from a weekend of grading a dirt lane in the woods. It was a very steep hill and had deep erosion and drops and rises. Because of the lay of the land, I sloped the lane to one side rather than putting a crown in the road. The dips and rises in the lane made it difficult to establish the line for the wheels and blade to follow. At the bottom of the hill, I put the blade behind the left front wheel an slightly past the outside of the wheel so I could cut a little soil from the bank to fill in the low spots. The right wheels would drop into the ruts and of course the blade would also drop on the right side, ruining the slope I was trying to establish. After many passes I got enough dirt moved to fill the erosion and the grader would maintain a decent slope without tilting to one side. All this has helped me understand what you say about the cab having slope or not. The more the cab remained constant, the easier it became to keep the blade at the slope I needed. it was great fun and I am learning a lot about properly sloping and grading this lane.

 

[farmer45]

It sounds like you did good. I found that there isn't just one way to do things. There is a difference in the soil and the lay of the land and moisture that all affect the way grading works. While you can get advice and pointers ( and I encourage you to keep asking) you will learn the most with experience. Don't be afraid to try something different. You should be able to fix your mistakes with an extra pass or two. It will also be a lot easier to keep the lane in shape if you touch it up regularly and not let it get back to where it was. It's amazing how fast a road can go to pot if it isn't maintained for a while. When I graded roads you could drive every road in the township with a car if needed. After two years of only being bladed once or twice at the most I would not recommend driving a couple of they without 4 wheel drive to help pull you out of some of the ditches that have washed across the road.

 

[Ole Gal]

Going uphill seemed to be the best technique for getting the lane leveled. The left side was the ditch side and the toe of the blade behind the left front wheel. I have read that some operators prefer working the right side of the road, but my grader is set up to work the left side and the blade extends past the circle a foot more on the right than on the left of the circle. On my old grader the adjustments are mostly bolts and nuts, so it takes some time to make a change and honestly , I have not figured out the logic of all the adjustments. I need a Galion grader manual to tell me what each adjustment does, but cannot find one. I am using only two variables now, turning the circle to make cutting easier in hard clay or pushing the windrow further across the road and also the height adjustment. This makes it less complicated for me while I am learning. The blade tilt seems to be good for cutting and the soil is rolling nicely and crumbling well. I love my old grader and it is getting the job done in spite of it's limitations and mine! The lane is a mess and makes turns between trees, goes up and down hill and narrow. No place to turn around in some sections, so I back up and try to pack loose soil with the wheels as I back. (Backing is truly a skill to be learned when you have close turns!) The lane is narrow so the middle of the lane did not get packed. It was high in the middle of the lane to start with so maybe it will not be too bad. Some family members had stopped going to the cabin in the woods because they could not drive their cars. The lane has not been touched with machines since the bulldozer first cut the lane 50 years ago. This is a good practice lane for me since it would be hard to make it worse! The only unfortunate part of fixing the road is ruining the 4 wheeling fun in the mud for my sons!

 

[Stone970]

I normally put the lift cylinders in float to take pressure off the pin. Then unlock it then use the side shift to move the circle over. If it doesn't line up I also use the blade slide to get it far enough over....just wondering what machines are you guys all driving.

 

[ledsel]

I always told my girls that you have to grade with your ass. You can easily tell the angle as you sit. you can feel if you are level. just common sense.