John Deere 490 Stall

[Pete w]

Good morning Ladies and Gents,
I need some help with a 490 we have here. Its been sitting for a while, took it to a job to use it and it kept stalling under load and if you hold a function over relief. Doesn't matter what mode its in. Changed fuel filters. Checked air filter. Purrs like a kitten. runs wide open, no issue. Went through the service manual and the crappy diagnostic sheet. According to the sheet the engine speed sensor and angle sensor were bad. Replaced both and set my angle sensor according to the specs. Same issue persists. Any recommendations? ideas? I dont want to continue hanging parts. Thanks

 

[mg2361]

Welcome to HEF Pete!

A machine serial number is always good. Is your machine an "E"?

First check your fuses, F4, F7, F8 and F9. Pay particular attention to the F7 1 A fuse. If they are good try swapping the electrical connectors on the solenoids on the main hydraulic pump to see if your machine switches from stalling to low power.

 

[Pete w]

It is a 490E Serial# FF490EX026098
I checked all fuses and swapped relays. Ohm and continuity tests. Fluid looks clean, no obstructions. Everything seems fine, but i dont really trust the manuals method of testing so i dont know if i still have a bad sensor or what. All i have left to replace sensor wise is the differential pressure sensor and the 2 displacement solenoids. But again i dont want to hand unnecessary parts...

 

[Pete w]

Also i did switch the harness' on the displacement solenoids and no change.

 

[mg2361]

Do you have DR ZX or MPDr? You may need access to that software to accurately troubleshoot this machine.

Lets see if there are any codes. Behind the right console under the right arm rest there is a 4 pin connector. Key off, looking into the connector, put a jumper between the upper right terminal and the lower right terminal. Turn the key on and read the blink pattern on the Pump and Valve controller (will have to remove the plastic behind the seat). Post results.

 

[Pete w]

I did do that but the codes didnt make sense. 13, 22, 26, 31, 36
No engine codes
22 is related to engine speed and says you cannot change the speed. The machine is not doing that, runs fine. But the same code can also be a PVC communication error. Also related to the angle sensor which was replaced. And the PDSV's
26 is related to the DP sensor
13 is engine speed sensor which i replaced.
31 is oil temp sensor which should not effect much of anything
I dont see any listing for code "36"
Pulling my hair out....

 

[mg2361]

22 is pump control not normal.
36 is disconnected arm in pressure sensor or it's wiring.

Remember, if you have a code for a sensor, it does not mean "the sensor". The code means the sensor "circuit" which could be the sensor, connector terminals, wiring or even a controller.

It would be nice if you had the ability to perform "retry procedure B" and then run it and see what codes come back. I'll have to think on it and get back to you.

 

[mg2361]

Do you have DR ZX or MPDr?

Do you ^^^^?

 

[Pete w]

I do not, I may have to get one. The DR ZX i can only find coming out of China. Cant find any listings for the MPDR

 

[mg2361]

Try unplugging your displacement solenoid valves and swapping the valve assemblies on top of your pump then plug the wires back in (do not have the wires follow the solenoids) to see if the problem changes.

 

[Gene Walker jr.]

i have a simular problem with a hitachi ex100-2 with what i was told is the same machine.
called out the big guns at local hitachi shop and they are up in clouds about it .
we have diagnosed it not to be wireing replacer tilt sensor dp sensor rpm sensor .
all was fine one day and started it back up and had slow hyd. replaced rpm sensor got high flow back but as soon as put bucket on ground it stalls motor.
mechanic can apply 24 volts to selinoid and reset angle sensor but when turn off and restart goes back to same . have not switched solenoids but did switch wires. no change only sensor have not changed yet is pressure on pump, waiting for it to come in . but the other thing i need help on is before i give 1200 for a computer i ordered the conversion kit but the english instructions are very short my erector set had better instructions.
can anyone point me in the direction of installing this kit ,two days of 200.00 hr mechanic is all i can take and still have same problem.as when he arrived the first day.

 

[mg2361]

For starters, you should have started a new thread.

You do not put 24 V to the solenoid to adjust the angle sensor. The solenoids are unplugged, then wait 5 minutes, then adjust the angle sensor. Actually those solenoids should have 24 V to them all the time at key on. The controller controls the ground. If you don't have 24 V at the solenoids at key on you might have a bad solenoid relay.

With that being said has the fuses been checked, especially the F7 1 A controller fuse? F8, F9 pump solenoid fuses? Did the $200/hr mechanic use MPDr? To properly troubleshoot those puppies, diagnostic software is a must. Did anyone get codes out of the machine, whether through MPDr or blink codes? You sure about the wiring? Those machine's had loads of wiring issues. I doubt (unless someone put a higher amp fuse in it) that your controller is the issue.

It might be hard to find but someone had posted the instructions for a conversion kit here in the forum a while back. I remember seeing it. Unfortunately I am having trouble myself finding it.

 

[Gene Walker jr.]

I'm a little new to the forum protocol so please forgive me .
But I have the dr program but no luck on the reading and he had his service computer .
He traced all the wires and said they were good i told him I would get a new harness if he would just be sure that was my problem so 5 hrs tracing wires and all was good he said .
I'm kind of lost for what to do next .i do have the conversion kit in hand but directions are not very plain to me ,
They seam to jump back and forth not from point a to b .
The thing that has me is that when he applied 24 to selinoid the one close to door that would get pump down to where the shaft was horizontal so it would set tilt sensor ,then everything is ok till shut off and start again
Then back to stall when load applied.
How would I tell witch wire would be 24 on a new selinoid both wires are black I no longer have factory terminals on my selinoids I have spade conectorts China did not mark hot wire lol that's what I get for being frugal .
The cotroler blinks twice he said that was normal when he left the code it was showing was no signal tilt sensor
I have a new one but we are arguing about what way it mounts my manual says one way he said another mine is wires face me and punch mark away.
I have check the arm on pump it is still hooked up or I can't turn with screwdriver
The only things I have not changed is selinoids and pressure sensor. Any comment would be appreciated .

 

[mg2361]

Sorry, it has been a while. How have you made out?

The cotroler blinks twice he said that was normal when he left the code it was showing was no signal tilt sensor

What blink code did you have?

I have a new one but we are arguing about what way it mounts my manual says one way he said another mine is wires face me and punch mark away.

The angle sensor should be mounted with the punch mark opposite of the wiring harness

 

[Gene Walker jr.]

Still no luck on a cure ordered another angel sensor still stalls under load .still un decided if I can deleat pcm,
Myself instructions for kit not very helpful to me ,considering order Pam as mechanic said that was my problem but if Pam only controls ground on selinoid then should not be the problem switching wires on them did not change anything have changed all sensors .
Next is a new selinoid on the one facing door,no code anymore yes did have computer program drzx.
Anyone know of Bette installation instructions for deleat kit

 

[mg2361]

It's definitely a hydraulic issue and not an engine power issue, correct? Stalls real fast when operating hydraulics?

The fuses I mentioned above OK?

Do you have 24 V to the solenoids when the key is on?

 

[Pete w]

Try unplugging your displacement solenoid valves and swapping the valve assemblies on top of your pump then plug the wires back in (do not have the wires follow the solenoids) to see if the problem changes.

Its been a while but ive finally got back around to this thing. Swapped them around, no change.

 

[mg2361]

Pete, It's definitely a hydraulic issue and not an engine power issue, correct? Stalls real fast when operating hydraulics? Or does it die a slow death?

 

[Pete w]

Pete, It's definitely a hydraulic issue and not an engine power issue, correct? Stalls real fast when operating hydraulics? Or does it die a slow death?

Definitely hydraulic. As soon as there is any load or hold over relief it immediately dies.

 

[mg2361]

What voltage did you set the angle sensor to? What procedure specifically was used?

At this point you may need someone to connect MPDr to it to see what the DP sensor, pump angle sensor, engine speed sensor and the pump delivery pressure sensors are doing. Also the control signal to the pump displacement solenoids needs to be checked as well.