Zieman 45K trailer not tilting

[JPSouth]

Bought a couple used trailers, this one has had some recent work on the axles but far as the shop knew stock elsewhere. It's in good shape, had reasonable care in a dry climate. I've only run smaller tilts, so I don't know a lot about the bigger ones, but this config is what I was looking for to haul equipment on weekends for contractors. Other than having to re-wire the whole thing (no idea how the municipality ever ran this thing down the road .. it was wired specifically for something, but nowhere near the standard 7-pin pattern, and taillight circuits were a complete mystery to me, didn't connect to anything).

Problem is, the thing only kinda tilts, much better in warmer weather, of course, but even in summer temps only reluctantly goes down until it hits the collapsible light bar and then takes a bunch of jumping to get fully down, and then won't stay there. Of course, I can always get hoes and loaders on using buckets, but it's a PITA. I can't get any response out of the manufacturer, but I'm wondering about the cylinder setup. Is there supposed to be a hydraulic reservoir for this thing, or does it work like my 18' Trailmaster, using a inter-cylinder bleed? There is an allen screw on the top of the RH cylinder, doesn't seem to change things any.

Never worked on tilts before, so hoping someone here can line me out. Got into this thing pretty reasonable, so I can spend a few bucks to get it right if needed. Can't believe they shipped this thing out with the front end of the tilt bed way too heavy, so it's about got to be the cylinders.

 

[Nige]

Do you have any idea what oil is in it.? That's the first thing that comes to mind when you say it works better in warmer weather than cold.

 

[coalrulz]

Bought a couple used trailers, this one has had some recent work on the axles but far as the shop knew stock elsewhere. It's in good shape, had reasonable care in a dry climate. I've only run smaller tilts, so I don't know a lot about the bigger ones, but this config is what I was looking for to haul equipment on weekends for contractors. Other than having to re-wire the whole thing (no idea how the municipality ever ran this thing down the road .. it was wired specifically for something, but nowhere near the standard 7-pin pattern, and taillight circuits were a complete mystery to me, didn't connect to anything).

JPSouth, from your second picture it appears that the rod end and base end ports of both cylinders are plugged off. Do you have any hydraulic hoses going to either cylinder?
If not my guess would be someone removed all the items needed to tilt the deck correctly. Think trailer would need hydraulic tank, pump and lines. Looked at Zieman's website appears they still make this model, maybe worth a call to them to verify what is missing.

 

[JPSouth]

I do not, and as soon as we have something like warmer temps that's about the first thing I intend to do, crack both cylinder fittings open and see what's in there. We've had an early winter, well below zero a good share of the time (-49°F on 12/22) so I've not been outside working on anything.

coalrulz - I agree, attempts to contact the company are a dead-end so probably on my own. I found two or three other 2347s for sale over the past months, one was tilted and appeared the same as mine, nothing but cylinders, no hydraulic pumps, hoses or bleed valves. I'm on a hunt this week to try and find someone who knows something about these systems and cure the problem before spring. Far as I've seen, Zieman never made a power tilt, so I'm thinking I've either got incorrect oil for a cold climate, not enough/too much oil in the cylinders/a bad bleed system, corrosion inside the cylinders or a combination of some or all.

 

[Junkyard]

I feel like something is missing externally….I’ve seen a lot of tilt and dump trailers and none had both ports plugged. I wonder if previous owner removed some stuff due to leaks? Just seems strange to me. Any I’ve seen utilize the oil in the cylinder had a hose from port to port and a needle valve to control speed of tilt.

I think the Allen screw is simply to retain gland, I don’t think it adjusts anything.

 

[suladas]

Mine has air bags to tilt so different setup but it was slow to go up and down before, the hinge bolts were seized making it not want to move freely could be something to check.

 

[heymccall]

My Towmaster tilt trailers are like that. Both ports plugged.
The piston has a metering hole. Mine are balanced so all I have to do is stand on the tail.

 

[92U 3406]

Call me blind but I'm not seeing any lines on those cylinders at all.

What are you using as a power source for the deck? Wet line from the truck?

Is it possible those cylinders are air actuated?

Can you get us some more pictures of the cylinders, any lines, valves etc?

 

[crane operator]

I'm like junkyard, I haven't seen any of the gravity ones that didn't have a hose from port to port with a control/ needle valve, but I can see where something like heymccall talks about would work.

If you wanted to find out if its the rear pins binding, or a cylinder problem, hook your backhoe to the front of the deck with a chain (use the bucket if you need to push it back down), pull the pins on the cylinders, and just move the deck on its own, and then you'll know whether its a cylinder issue or a hinge/ pin issue.

 

[Junkyard]

You reckon they put different cylinders on it not understanding they bled internally?

 

[JPSouth]

Mine has air bags to tilt so different setup but it was slow to go up and down before, the hinge bolts were seized making it not want to move freely could be something to check.

I'd not thought of that, definitely will check that tomorrow.

My Towmaster tilt trailers are like that. Both ports plugged.
The piston has a metering hole. Mine are balanced so all I have to do is stand on the tail.

My 18' is the same way, ports plugged and it is balanced just right - unlatch the keeper mechanism and it tilts up nearly all the way by itself, stays tilted. Nice easy ride back down when the machine is driven on.

Call me blind but I'm not seeing any lines on those cylinders at all.

What are you using as a power source for the deck? Wet line from the truck?

Is it possible those cylinders are air actuated?

Can you get us some more pictures of the cylinders, any lines, valves etc?

What you see is all there is, no plumbing whatsoever, it's not a powered set of cylinders, and I can't find any evidence that it was ever set up as such. I keep thinking there ought to be a set of lines between them, and a ball valve to adjust bleed or lock the bed in place if wanted. See heymccall above.

If you wanted to find out if its the rear pins binding, or a cylinder problem, hook your backhoe to the front of the deck with a chain (use the bucket if you need to push it back down), pull the pins on the cylinders, and just move the deck on its own, and then you'll know whether its a cylinder issue or a hinge/ pin issue.

Thanks, good idea!

 

[JPSouth]

You reckon they put different cylinders on it not understanding they bled internally?

I don't think so, the paint and general appearance of the cylinders strongly suggests that they came on the trailer. The examples I've seen at auction sites online look identical.

 

[92U 3406]

So literally just a pair of cylinders sitting there with no lines hooked up to them anywhere? At all? How'd you manage to make it tilt??????

 

[JPSouth]

So literally just a pair of cylinders sitting there with no lines hooked up to them anywhere? At all? How'd you manage to make it tilt??????

Release the front latch, stand on the back, it tilts down just fine until it gets to where the collapsible taillight bar hits the ground, then takes a bunch of wiggling and jumping to make the last foot. But then won't stay there, tilts back just to where the bar is resting on the ground, stays there, back edge about a foot off the ground.

 

[crane operator]

So if someone has pulled plugs on the system, or it otherwise has air in the cylinders. The air would be on the top side of the piston (up on the trailer). Trailer will tilt- moving oil until it has transferred all oil to the bottom side, which may be about where it hits on the light bar?

After that, you're no longer moving oil, you're trying to transfer and compress air from the top of the piston- to the bottom? So after you force the trailer down to load- when you step back off it, it falls to the "oil level" with the air on the top side of the cylinder? With the air always wanting to stay on the top side of the cylinder?

That somehow makes sense in my head- but its late and I may not be thinking it through correctly. But if you bleed the air out of the system so its all oil, I think the trailer will work correctly.

Maybe

 

[Tags]

Don’t think this is your issue, but is your hitch height low at the truck making the trailer pitch to the back of the truck? I would spray penetrating oil on every single pivot point, work it up and down and see if it changes at all. If it does, disassemble and lube pivot points with neverseize.