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WTB Hydraulic Detachable I have some questions

Discussion in 'Trailers' started by JCSI, Dec 29, 2012.

  1. JCSI

    JCSI Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2012
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Kansas
    Hello all I am new to this forum, and I have some questions about hydraulic detach trailers. I am currently in a 3-way partnership and we operate a small excavation company (57 year old company). I run a '04 Sterling tractor with 172" WB (16,520lb), '91 Holden single drop tri-axle (20,300lb) and I haul a PC200-8 that weighs in at 49,520lb (full of fuel, undercarriage clean, but grousers have dirt stuck in them). Total weight is 86,500lb, 1st Axle has 9,860lb, 2-3 have 33,240lb, 4-6 have 43,400lb. The way I see it and please tell me if I'm wrong is I need a longer trailer with a longer GN so I can slide my 5th wheel forward to get some more weight on the truck without going over on my drivers. I do have a Overweight/Overwidth for Kansas and stay local with my business, but the way I am right now I'm over on my trailer axles and probably do not meet bridge. Now that we have that out of the way here are my questions:

    1. I'm looking at Trail King and Eager Beaver, specs are similar but their is a HUGE price difference. Can anyone shed some light on that?

    2. My partners asked me to inquire about tandem trailers but based on info above I do not see how that is even possible. All the competition in the area uses tandems and similar weight class machines but are they overweight?

    3. I go in and out of residential areas all day. Will I regret buying a trailer that will be 10' longer than what I have?

    Thank you for any replies sorry if I rambled on for too long :)
     
  2. strucalc23

    strucalc23 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2010
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    Location:
    North Carolina
    Lowboy Weights



    No worries on the rambling, they are all very good questions. I'm an engineer at Kaufman Trailers. We also sell lowboys and would love you to consider us in the mix with Eager Beaver and Trail King but if you're set on one of those that's no problem, I understand brand allegiance and I'm actually a fan of it. Either way, here's my 2 cents worth on the questions above.

    1. For your purposes, both Eager Beaver and Trail King will do the job. They are definitely different in some areas (Eager Beaver uses Grade 80 flanges in their beams and TrailKing is using Grade 100 or "T1" but I think for your purposes Eager Beaver would hold up fine). There are also some other dimensional and feature differences that I'll leave up to you differentiate. In summary though I do think both companies make a reputable product, Trail King's just a little more proud of theirs :) .

    2. You are right on the border of definitely needing to go to a tri-axle. There's really no way to know for sure whether you need tandem or tri unless you give me the exact weight of your truck. Then we could figure whether a tandem is possible. Our Tandem 35 Ton Spring weighs in at about 15,000 lbs. and our Tandem air weighs about 15,500 lbs. Our tri-axle air weighs in at 20,000 lbs. We also offer a triaxle 45 Ton Spring that weighs around 18,000 and is a really good option for people in your shoes that may barely need a tri-axle as I don't think you'll find a better price on a quality (T1 built) tri-axle lowboy.

    3. One of the most common options we sell to people that are in your shoes that do a lot of "development work" is a beavertail and ramps on the back. You can't beat this loading capability when you're in a development and just don't have room to detach. Check one out here.

    Anyhow, best of luck and feel free to call me even if you aren't interested in any of our trailers. I'd be happy to help you with any of your questions.

    Daniel Downing, PE
    336-790-6822
    www.kaufmantrailers.com
     
  3. JCSI

    JCSI Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2012
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    Location:
    Kansas
    I'm willing to look at any brand, the two I mentioned are available locally through dealers just haven't branched out yet. Forgot to mention above that a beaver tail is a must most of the time I will be going off the back. Just couldn't believe the price difference and didn't know if it was a "you get what you pay for" or the difference between a Corvette and Ferrari.
     
  4. strucalc23

    strucalc23 Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    North Carolina
    I understand. It's not a situation of "you get what you pay for here". I do think the Corvette Ferrari comparison is a little more accurate but I don't even know that that analogy lines up perfectly as I would say it really does cost a whole lot more to build a Ferrari then a Corvette, it really doesn't cost that much more to build a Trail King then an Eager Beaver, probably only slightly more. I'd say Trail King themselves is making a little more money and the dealer is also I'm sure making more on the Trail King then on the Eager Beaver. Either way, the dealer is making money on both, where-as (here's the Kaufman plug :) ) we sell direct therefore eliminating the dealer.

    If people respond, you'll likely get responses similar to, "I love my Trail King I'll never buy another brand" or the same for Eager Beaver. You'll also get responses like, "I had constant problems with my Trail King, I'd go with Eager Beaver" and visa verca. I will say again though, overall, I think they are both good trailers and you won't go wrong with either. However, if you were asking about a Challenger (Witzco), I'd steer you clear of them. They definitely lack in quality.

    Good Luck!
     
  5. JBlackwell

    JBlackwell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    100
    Location:
    Daingerfield, Texas
    So you want a hydraulic detach, but you want to be able to rear load, get in and out of tight situations, and haul 50,000#? My opinion, get a tandem axle trailer. Why I say that is a trailer like that will weigh about 16,500# (with dovetail, but no ramps), the same as what your truck weighs. It will be a 35ton capacity which is way more then you need (a 3 axle will be 50 or 55ton), you will only weigh 33,000# empty, so 83,000# loaded. You will need an overweight permit 5 axles is all you need to get the permit for 83,000#. Kansas will actually give you up to 45,000# on a tandem so you could payload up to 69,000# if you needed, so you still have room to grow with a bigger machine. Another thing is a tandem does have a shorter turning radius then a tridem with the same deck length. Also a 5 axle setup does well with weight distribution so you don't need much deck length to get the weight right and a most of 35ton hydraulic detaches have a 22' well vs. a 50ton tridem has a 24' well. Actually a 20' well is all you need. Not to mention not having to keep up with extra axle's worth of tires, brakes, wheel seals, S-cams, slack adjusters, etc.

    All in all in your situation I can not give you one reason to get a tri axle, so with that said get a tandem.

    On another note stay away from Witzgo Challenger & Globe. You will be fine with anything other then them.
     
  6. JCSI

    JCSI Member

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    Location:
    Kansas
    Thanks JBlackwell, since I've started this thread we have decided on a tandem just need to decide which brand. Would like to stay with the 24' well so we can haul 2 pieces of equipment it would be about 4' longer than what I already have. I did verify with KDOT and they told me 45000# on tandems and 60000# on tridems, strucal23 gave me this info and a truck salesman was telling me something different. Got it figured out now.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013
  7. JCSI

    JCSI Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2012
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    Location:
    Kansas
    Well we pulled the trigger on a Kaufman 35 Ton so we will see how it stands up to hard everyday use. So far they have been very pleasant to work with.
     
  8. TrailerSalesMan

    TrailerSalesMan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2011
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    Occupation:
    Trailer Sales
    Location:
    Bradenton, FL
    Curious to know your note.."stay away from Witzgo Challenger & Globe. You will be fine with anything other then them." Shed some light on this....
     
  9. Fastdirt

    Fastdirt Senior Member

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    Location:
    GA
    Do you a review/pics on the Kaufman 35 ton?
     
  10. backhoe1

    backhoe1 Well-Known Member

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    Aug 24, 2007
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    Location:
    South Dakota
    I bought a used witzco 50 ton triaxle a couple years ago, I can't complain at all. For less than $10k and it has done everything I've asked it to. For something that I use less than 2 hours a week on average, I couldn't imagine spending more money than what's needed.
     
  11. JCSI

    JCSI Member

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    Location:
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    @Fastdirt, So far so good it has worked great for me. I haven't owned a hydraulic detach prior to this so I personally can not compare it to anything. The construction seems very good, the fenders on the rear could be heavier gauge or thickness I slightly creased them by going off the rear of the trailer with a PC200. I figured out what I did and have not done it again. I read comments about the paint and I have not noticed any fading yet. Should have got the Apitong decking instead of the oak decking. Customer service was good in the sales portion of the deal and have not needed them for anything else yet. The Trail King rep came by and looked it over when I wasn't their but I never got his opinion.
     
  12. JBlackwell

    JBlackwell Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Daingerfield, Texas
    Well I have personally known 3 people that has had a Globe trailer in the past and we have personally bought a Globe to resale from a person who was original owner. Out of those 4 situations the transition was stressed out on a less then full capacity load including the one we had which had been repaired. The other situation was the deck deflecting negative camber when loaded under the capacity of the trailer. I believe he called back at the factory to tell someone the situation and some person there told them it was suppose to do that and when unloaded it will come back. That doesn't sound right to me. Who designs a trailer to go negative camber like that??? Yes the deck will deflect under load and that is why you put positive camber in it, so it will deflect flat when maxing out the trailer.

    Justin
     
  13. Fastdirt

    Fastdirt Senior Member

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    Location:
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    Thanks, JCSI. I have my doubts about the rear wheel covers myself. I have a deposit on a Kaufman 35 ton detach with beavertail and ramps, but I am stalling in hopes of a better find. I don't like the rear wheel covers. It looks thin. Having rear wheel covers is a must for me. Now you look at a Talbert rear wheel cover and it's steel diamond plate that looks to be almost 1/2" thick. Very strong. Also, Kaufman advertise that they sell new for what a used trailer cost. While true, an Eager Beaver will be worth $30k for a long time and I'm not sure if the Kaufman will bring much resale. Just saw an 04 Eager Beaver GL35 going for $32k and it's sold. The sales guy at Kaufman has been super nice and patient I must say. Never thought buying a lowboy trailer would be so hard. It's hard to find exactly what you are looking for. The worst part about buying new is the F.E.T. tax on top of sales tax equating to 19% to Uncle Sam.
     
  14. JCSI

    JCSI Member

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    Location:
    Kansas
    My rear wheel covers are 1/4" plate and I had them add traction bars from front to back, that might help beef them up a little bit. They are holding up better than I thought because I run my PC200 over the back about as much as I detach the trailer. I also swapped the rear ramps for gooseneck fenders because I have to back up to sidewalks and cross them , and the ramp support would have landed right on top of the sidewalk. The air suspension also dumps automatically when you set the trailer brakes, and I never bothered to ask if they accounted for that on the ramps. As far as pricing they were about 9K lower than a Eager Beaver spring ride. The Kaufman had a lot of features that were standard, that were optional on the EB. The price difference I assumed amounted to the cost of going through a dealer. There were many factors that went into the decision, and after 5 months of use it has been fine. I heard second hand of one local trailer guy say they were POS and would lose their camber. Who knows time will tell so far so good. The deck doesn't even fully flatten out with the PC200 and it weighs 50,000# when their is no mud hanging on it. Its rated for the full 70,000# but I can't legally haul that much anyway. I should also note that the other option I purchased was a 50 ton frame on a 35ton trailer, bigger deck beams and larger neck beams but they stayed with the 6" cylinders.
     
  15. TrailerSalesMan

    TrailerSalesMan Member

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    Occupation:
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    Location:
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    Justin,

    It sounds like whoever called spoke with someone with little knowledge. Yes, the deck will deflect, but should never go negative camber (unless overloaded of course). The main beams are T-1 steel which has great memory and when deflected, it will bring its self back to original shape and camber. Do you know the year of the trailer and possibly the model number? I would like to do my own research on your trailer. Do you know when they may have called? Since employed here in 2011, i strive myself on great customer service. I can tell you i have ruined a lot of clothes and i'm the only salesman that wears jeans and a mechanic style shirt! I'm not afraid to go out in the field and get my hands dirty. My customer has an issue, i do my best to resolve that issue and make both parties happy (mainly the customer). If you have any information or pictures, i would love to hear from you or see the pictures. You can email me at david@globetrailers.com

    Thanks,

    David
     
  16. JBlackwell

    JBlackwell Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    On the negative camber...Chris and his wife's name is DeAnna and they live in NE Texas, but I don't remember their last name. They ended up selling the trailer or trading it in and I know that they now have an XL 45ton extendable trailer.

    Another person that had a transition problem posts on this forum from OK if he wants to chime in...he sold it and now has a Fontaine I believe.
     
  17. Brushbuster

    Brushbuster New Member

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    Location:
    Foresthill California
    Get a Murray , Rackly or Cozad awesome light weight trailers
    we load over the rear all day long.
     
  18. wheelman007

    wheelman007 Member

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    Location:
    Tracy, Ca
    Jblackwell nows his stuff. I bought a trailer a year ago or so great used stuff. Ive owned lots of lowboys over the years go trail king or XL. Better trailers better resale less maintenance. Go tandom and permit it new trailer will let you get more up front.
     
  19. ETMF 58 White

    ETMF 58 White Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2011
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    153
    Location:
    SEC West
    About to make up my mind to start looking for a better trailer to replace my 35 ton Lufkin which is (1) too short to legally bridge when hauling my 210 Kobelco or my D6R or old D7E, and (2) scary as heck to load all of the above up the steep dovetail, and haul sitting up that high off the road, and (3) a real PITA to deal with tube tires and split rims, and (4) the ramps are back killers to pick up. So the price of the 35 ton Kaufman has caught my attention.
    Questions: are the Kaufmans holding up? Is a hydraulic detach a lot of trouble to remove and put back? Is a tandem 35 ton enough trailer for me? I doubt that I ever get a bigger Dozer or excavator.
    My truck has a 4 line wet kit (ex scrap iron company truck, I guess they needed lots of hydraulics for those roll off trailers).
    Any input is welcome. For the price of a 20 year old Talbert or Trail King, I can have a new Kaufman it appears. I'm too old to work on more old stuff than I already own, I would like something worry free for a change.
     
  20. wheelman007

    wheelman007 Member

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    That one statement should answer your question a 20 year old trail king is around the same as a new kaufmen. The hydraulic necks go on and off fast plus if you high center the trailer you can pick it up.