Cat Wrench
Well-Known Member
Here you go Tiny. Do you think this guy has this load properly secured?
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Would You Haul it ??
- Thread starter Tiny
- Start date
muzy
Well-Known Member
Deerhuler, I understand what you are saying, but am in disagrement with the dot officers interpitaion.
We recently had a DOT officer put on a training seminar for our company. The way he explained chaining, if the chain leaves a tie-down, goes through a loop on the machine, and returns to the original tie down point, you can figure the whole weight rating of the chain. If the chain does not go to the same tie down point, it only counts for half of it's capacity. In this picture, if I understand the rules correctly, the chains could only count for half of their rated capacity.
If will look at how lifting is done we see that rigging has diferent working load limits depending how it is used.
If we use 2 diferent anchor points for the same chain, we have created a basket. So in my opinion that would also increse woking load limit of that device by 2.
I have been challanged by dot and have had discusion on this method. No warning or ticket issued.
I would not argue that it would give twice the holding capacity but would be confedent at 1/2 the capacity ei- 1000 lbs increse to 1500lbs. muzy
We recently had a DOT officer put on a training seminar for our company. The way he explained chaining, if the chain leaves a tie-down, goes through a loop on the machine, and returns to the original tie down point, you can figure the whole weight rating of the chain. If the chain does not go to the same tie down point, it only counts for half of it's capacity. In this picture, if I understand the rules correctly, the chains could only count for half of their rated capacity.
If will look at how lifting is done we see that rigging has diferent working load limits depending how it is used.
If we use 2 diferent anchor points for the same chain, we have created a basket. So in my opinion that would also increse woking load limit of that device by 2.
I have been challanged by dot and have had discusion on this method. No warning or ticket issued.
I would not argue that it would give twice the holding capacity but would be confedent at 1/2 the capacity ei- 1000 lbs increse to 1500lbs. muzy
muzy
Well-Known Member
LOL Cat Wrench. muzy
95zIV
Senior Member
Tiny,
Tying down barrier is as easy as it gets. Depending on your preference 3,4,5,6 Chains however many you want just thrown across them and tightened down. That's all I and all the other guys at the precast company did. We placed them lengthwise and we had 10 footers and we did 10 on a truck, 3 over the drivers, 3 over the trailer wheels and 4 in the center. I'd figure what 8 or 9 on yours?
Tying down barrier is as easy as it gets. Depending on your preference 3,4,5,6 Chains however many you want just thrown across them and tightened down. That's all I and all the other guys at the precast company did. We placed them lengthwise and we had 10 footers and we did 10 on a truck, 3 over the drivers, 3 over the trailer wheels and 4 in the center. I'd figure what 8 or 9 on yours?
tonka
Senior Member
95zIV
Senior Member
Just the way it is right now is how I'd do it, I'd have one more chain on it across the top but that would be it. 3/8" chain and snap binders.
Tiny
Senior Member
Tiny
Senior Member
Now for the barrier , Neither Missouri or Kansas barrier have hole in them like shown but to be honest I wish they did.So this is what i have been doing and never had a cop even look twice at it.
I had a lowboy tractor so only 8 pieces at a time 3 , 3 and 2 . Used all but two short chains , All the lowboys have their own 1/2 inch chains on them so this lowboy truck only get 10 chains .
I had a lowboy tractor so only 8 pieces at a time 3 , 3 and 2 . Used all but two short chains , All the lowboys have their own 1/2 inch chains on them so this lowboy truck only get 10 chains .
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Deerehauler
Well-Known Member
Tiny, you chained the forklift almost exactly how I chain 90% of what I haul.
On newer John Deere tractors the chain points are big loops cast into the mechanical front wheel drive axle. On tractors with Independent Front Suspension, the chain points are on the lower A-arms. On these tractors I will cross chain the front of the tractor so the tire does not touch the chain. The forklift in the first picture has tie-downs far forward enough to make cross chaining unnecessary, in my opinion.
On newer John Deere tractors the chain points are big loops cast into the mechanical front wheel drive axle. On tractors with Independent Front Suspension, the chain points are on the lower A-arms. On these tractors I will cross chain the front of the tractor so the tire does not touch the chain. The forklift in the first picture has tie-downs far forward enough to make cross chaining unnecessary, in my opinion.
Grader4me
Senior Member
I agree with Deerehauler.Thats how we secure our equipment. We had a trailer come unhooked from a truck (long story) with a roller on it. The roller was secured in this manner with 4 individual chains. Trailer went in the ditch on its side but the roller stayed on the trailer. I might be able to find a picture of that..
norite
Senior Member
I would move the genie with a couple of changes.
Move the back chains closer to the back of the machine and use a single chain each way.
On the front one of the cross chains is hooked into the chain slot with the clevis hook, the chain link should be hooked into the slot and not the hook, the point of the hook is not designed to be pulled at an angle and could fail.
I would also wire the handles of the binders down with steel wire.
Move the back chains closer to the back of the machine and use a single chain each way.
On the front one of the cross chains is hooked into the chain slot with the clevis hook, the chain link should be hooked into the slot and not the hook, the point of the hook is not designed to be pulled at an angle and could fail.
I would also wire the handles of the binders down with steel wire.
muzy
Well-Known Member
Hey Norite, good catch on that clevis hook. Did not notice that.
Tiny your methods are good. But what is most important is you are aware and althou I am sure you are not wet behide the ears.
You are still looking for new ways and idea's to improve the work that you do. and that my freind is the differance between an acident waiting to happen and an acident prevented. TGIF. muzy
Tiny your methods are good. But what is most important is you are aware and althou I am sure you are not wet behide the ears.
You are still looking for new ways and idea's to improve the work that you do. and that my freind is the differance between an acident waiting to happen and an acident prevented. TGIF. muzy
Tiny
Senior Member
To be honest I wanted to get guys thinking by cussing and discussing.Some one wanting Ideas on how to secure a load may be looking for info.
Its been my Belief that if you laid all the truck drivers in the world end to end they would still point in all different directions.
Ask 5 guys how they would chain something and get 5 ideas. Some good, some not.
Thought I would be the guinea pig because my hide is tough and most can't upset me.
But there are two different ways to tie that lift shown , which one is better??why??
Its been my Belief that if you laid all the truck drivers in the world end to end they would still point in all different directions.
Ask 5 guys how they would chain something and get 5 ideas. Some good, some not.
Thought I would be the guinea pig because my hide is tough and most can't upset me.
But there are two different ways to tie that lift shown , which one is better??why??
Well, what I have to add is this. First, all snap binders are supposed to be secured, wire, rope, zip tie, bungee cord, something. I got that ticket on my last trip through the inspection station. I had missed securing one handle.
As far as cross chain or not, there are many variables, and I believe no hard rule. I do on some, not on others. Depends on where there is to hook, and the angle of the pull.
That brings up what to me is one of the most important but least talked about parts of this. Pay attention to the direction the load is being secured from moving in, and then have the chain as directly in line with it as possible. Just like in rigging, the angle of the pull affects the strength. Take a 2 way choker and look at the difference in capacity between a straight pull, a 60 deg pull, and a 45 deg pull. The more angled the securement is from the force applied, the less force it takes to break.
In the example above with the lift with the rail, the rear chains are looking good to me. A balance of strenght both side to side, and mostly in line with restraining forward movement. The front chains are OK side to side, but the angle resisting rearward movement is almost straight up and down. It would not take much force rearward on the machine to break those compared to the chains on the rear. With that said, you are much less likely to have a load roll to the rear than for one to try rolling forward, such as under hard braking.
Some machines do not give much choice, so then I use a bigger chain, or a basket arrangement, as in the first set of pictures.
That brings up my disagreement with the derating of the chain due to 2 attachment points. WTF???
Each point should hold what it is rated for, so starting and ending in 2 places should double capacity in theory. Like Muzy says, double is not real, but 1/2 again works. This way each leg of the chain shares the load, and each tie down point shares the load as well.
One more thing Tiny
If you lined up 5 truck drivers, I am pretty sure you would get 10 or more ways to do it, as most of them will not be cosistent from one answer to the next.
Good topic, and hopefully lots of people pay attention. I hate dodging loose loads as they roll of onto the road.
Now, if you want a hauling challenge, try tying down a 988 loader with no park brake for a trip out of the local mountains with grades up to 23%. Make sure you pack some extra chains for that day.
As far as cross chain or not, there are many variables, and I believe no hard rule. I do on some, not on others. Depends on where there is to hook, and the angle of the pull.
That brings up what to me is one of the most important but least talked about parts of this. Pay attention to the direction the load is being secured from moving in, and then have the chain as directly in line with it as possible. Just like in rigging, the angle of the pull affects the strength. Take a 2 way choker and look at the difference in capacity between a straight pull, a 60 deg pull, and a 45 deg pull. The more angled the securement is from the force applied, the less force it takes to break.
In the example above with the lift with the rail, the rear chains are looking good to me. A balance of strenght both side to side, and mostly in line with restraining forward movement. The front chains are OK side to side, but the angle resisting rearward movement is almost straight up and down. It would not take much force rearward on the machine to break those compared to the chains on the rear. With that said, you are much less likely to have a load roll to the rear than for one to try rolling forward, such as under hard braking.
Some machines do not give much choice, so then I use a bigger chain, or a basket arrangement, as in the first set of pictures.
That brings up my disagreement with the derating of the chain due to 2 attachment points. WTF???
Each point should hold what it is rated for, so starting and ending in 2 places should double capacity in theory. Like Muzy says, double is not real, but 1/2 again works. This way each leg of the chain shares the load, and each tie down point shares the load as well.
One more thing Tiny
If you lined up 5 truck drivers, I am pretty sure you would get 10 or more ways to do it, as most of them will not be cosistent from one answer to the next.
Good topic, and hopefully lots of people pay attention. I hate dodging loose loads as they roll of onto the road.
Now, if you want a hauling challenge, try tying down a 988 loader with no park brake for a trip out of the local mountains with grades up to 23%. Make sure you pack some extra chains for that day.
powerjoke
Senior Member
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2009
- Messages
- 1,125
- Location
- Missouri
- Occupation
- owner/operator/estimator/mechanic/grunt/ditchdigge
actually if its tied to the trailer in two points its considered an "indirect" tie and is allowed to use 1.75times strength and one point is 1times....???? (i forget how the riddle goes)
TINY; it looks as if in the first post you have met the new DOT guy running round KC lol.....he's an ass. we all thought the Female was bad and i guess the young guy is trying to make a name for himself lol...i got a few freinds i call when we do something we shouldnt be doing to find out where theyre at. today we moved a little PC200 on a 25ton 5axle rig and knowing my guys he prolly dint have a chain at all lol....
no actaully, if u guys knew the KC DOT you would understand that TINY's chain down would still be considered in-sufficiant for some damned reason. so we try to do the best we can with how many ever many chains we have
Pj
TINY; it looks as if in the first post you have met the new DOT guy running round KC lol.....he's an ass. we all thought the Female was bad and i guess the young guy is trying to make a name for himself lol...i got a few freinds i call when we do something we shouldnt be doing to find out where theyre at
. today we moved a little PC200 on a 25ton 5axle rig and knowing my guys he prolly dint have a chain at all lol....no actaully, if u guys knew the KC DOT you would understand that TINY's chain down would still be considered in-sufficiant for some damned reason. so we try to do the best we can with how many ever many chains we have
Pj
powerjoke
Senior Member
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2009
- Messages
- 1,125
- Location
- Missouri
- Occupation
- owner/operator/estimator/mechanic/grunt/ditchdigge
lol, funny you say that cause he told me "stop easy on these scales cause theyre expensive and you dont want to damage them!" .....
so what did I do?....I went from one pedal being on the floor to the other one being on the floor
lmao......to bad it was a frigging duramax and neither of the pedals do much hahajust a little FYI; I had a buddy that got tangled up with them one day and got a overload ticket and as it turns out, there is no way to certify a mobile scale, so he took it to court and got outta trouble
Pj
I heard of a guy who stomped on brakes hard enough to blow out the load cells in the portables. Problem was, then he was given the choice to either wait for another set to be delivered in a few hours, or follow the officer to the nearest set of scales to get weighed.
Not to mention that his level 1 inspection became much more thorough after that.
Good advise on the lack of certification! I'll have to tuck that info away for the day I need it.
Not to mention that his level 1 inspection became much more thorough after that.
Good advise on the lack of certification! I'll have to tuck that info away for the day I need it.
