Good luck tomorrow on seeing why you bent the rod on your hydraulic cylinder. If I lived close I would be there if you wanted help. I have a hyd. crane on my work truck, that has been a real back saver. Wish I would of had it years ago, handy as a pocket in a shirt.
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Working the National 1300A
- Thread starter Natman
- Start date
I've got just the thing, a couple pipe stands, 1,000 pound capacity, adjustable in height, and a scrap piece of 2" pipe to fit in the V the stands have on top. I'll pull it at my mechanic's shop, equipment to pull and push won't be a problem.
I just checked out my Tuesday job, and it luckily is set so that outrigger won't be needed at all, that quadrant. With the hood being 12:00, I'll be picking trusses from a stack at my 4, and setting them from 11 to 3 or 4. I've worked short jacked enough to be confident this will be fine. Best of all, there is NO reason at all to for some reason swing over the short jacked side, in case I forgot.
I just checked out my Tuesday job, and it luckily is set so that outrigger won't be needed at all, that quadrant. With the hood being 12:00, I'll be picking trusses from a stack at my 4, and setting them from 11 to 3 or 4. I've worked short jacked enough to be confident this will be fine. Best of all, there is NO reason at all to for some reason swing over the short jacked side, in case I forgot.
I've been keeping busy, on 2 jobs since the breakdown I was able to scope out earlier, to ensure I could do them short jacked. This job pictured is only 1/4 from my place, my new closet neighbors, 1200 pounds on the hook, 62' away, and it felt rock solid. Not that I wasn't paying extra close attention of course, and proceeding slow and smooth. No one was to my left, until several minutes after I set it into place, and all were aware of the situation, hard to tell in this pic but my boom was about halfway over my LF front outrigger, not past it. 
Like in flying, how do you know the limits of your machine if you don't approach them a bit? Parts ordered, a new shaft, and I told the hydraulic guy I wanted the old one, (it's mine, after all) it's about 6' long and still a fine piece of high strength steel, and I will end up using it around the place for something I'm sure.
Like in flying, how do you know the limits of your machine if you don't approach them a bit? Parts ordered, a new shaft, and I told the hydraulic guy I wanted the old one, (it's mine, after all) it's about 6' long and still a fine piece of high strength steel, and I will end up using it around the place for something I'm sure.They were galvanized like always. Engineer didn’t want any screws in it and the nails are all 20d 4” HDG polebarn nails for the truss, 10d for the lathing and decking. Over 100 20d nails in each truss. After driving 800 by hand the first day I got smart and overnighted a nail gun to shoot big boy nails. The tail on those trusses was fun to set. We only cut a 3” hole for it and had to get an 1 1/2” tail through it 30’ up that roof.
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crane operator
Senior Member
Knepptune has the ticket here- and that's also what I would probably do in a pinch. You could do the same with a pickup or skid loader or whatever is on site. Slide it out and pin it and put your jack down. It would be way safer than what you are currently doing.
I don't know about the rigs you operate, but no way would I swing the boom around into that quadrant just on the rubber, especially with the low boom angle it would take to effect a pull on the beam, if that's what you mean?. I've done 5 jobs since the breakdown, and two things different is I fess up and tell the crew the entire situation up front, and make a pre visit first in my car. I have been fortunate, other then having to run out more stick, I haven't had to move, take longer, or otherwise slow the process down. With no out OR down, I pad up tight as possible with my dunnage on that side, first, and then once I run the others out and down everything is tight. Doing residential truss work, off the curb, off the side, there is zero chance of me forgetting what's up and swinging around to the street side. Monday morning's job will have me pulling in, with the rig on a slight nose down, and with the truss pile directly off the front, and the house they're going on at my 2 to 4 or so O'clock. BUT...Tuesday's job is one where the gradient and the way the site is set up, will be a problem, as I have no way to lift the rear and unlike the other sites, no way to set up to avoid that, level or nose down I have handled. I may have to pass on that job, but I also may be repaired by then. My personal, below the belt, LMI, has been on high alert on general principals, but with close to 4K hours op time on this rig, it's been in the low end of the green zone. Still, it will once again be a big relief to have full extension in all quadrants, as it makes my setup so easier, I just have been dumb lucky the jobs I've done have been laid out "right."
crane operator
Senior Member
What he's saying is not to spin around on full rubber, but to put your front beam and jack out to full, and use the stick to pull out the rear one. If your front one is out full, and you were up straight enough to get ahold of the rear one, its not going over toward that jack. You wouldn't need to be out and flat to grab that back one.
I would probably just pull it out with the customer's truck or telehandler,skid loader etc. because that would be a easier pull out- the crane will tend to pull up, rather than out. Wrap a round up around the jack and slide it at least to half and pin it.
Its really not that big a deal if you don't have any boom telescoped out, and the front beam is out and jack set. When you get up and fixed, put your front beam out all the way and set your jack, then put out your rear beam, and leave the jack a inch off the ground. Boom up all the way, and swing over there and play around booming up and down, when it gets light, it will tip down onto the jack and pad. You don't want to scope out 100' and play around, thats asking for trouble. Don't get real rough- you don't want to twist the frame, but you would get a better feel for the machine.
And as far as forgetting about the short beam- I know of two boom trucks that went over short jacked on the off side in a tight spot. No room for full span outriggers, so the operator set up short beamed on the "non working" side. And both forgot in a "hey, just swing over here and grab this" moment , and over they went. I'm not saying its going to happen to you, its just easy to forget after setting 57 trusses and they flop over the garage gable and 'hey we need this one yet'.
Did you figure out for sure what the problem was in the beam?
I wondered if you would have outrigger jack without your beam hoses hooked up- some of them use a common "return" line- jacks share a hose with the beam extension cylinder. With some creative hose work you should be able to get the jack to work.
I would probably just pull it out with the customer's truck or telehandler,skid loader etc. because that would be a easier pull out- the crane will tend to pull up, rather than out. Wrap a round up around the jack and slide it at least to half and pin it.
Its really not that big a deal if you don't have any boom telescoped out, and the front beam is out and jack set. When you get up and fixed, put your front beam out all the way and set your jack, then put out your rear beam, and leave the jack a inch off the ground. Boom up all the way, and swing over there and play around booming up and down, when it gets light, it will tip down onto the jack and pad. You don't want to scope out 100' and play around, thats asking for trouble. Don't get real rough- you don't want to twist the frame, but you would get a better feel for the machine.
And as far as forgetting about the short beam- I know of two boom trucks that went over short jacked on the off side in a tight spot. No room for full span outriggers, so the operator set up short beamed on the "non working" side. And both forgot in a "hey, just swing over here and grab this" moment , and over they went. I'm not saying its going to happen to you, its just easy to forget after setting 57 trusses and they flop over the garage gable and 'hey we need this one yet'.
Did you figure out for sure what the problem was in the beam?
I wondered if you would have outrigger jack without your beam hoses hooked up- some of them use a common "return" line- jacks share a hose with the beam extension cylinder. With some creative hose work you should be able to get the jack to work.
crane operator
Senior Member
I should also add- if you're not comfortable, don't mess around over there with the beam not out- I'd hate to see you lay it down and have a "those guys on the internet said I could do it". If you were closer, I'd come over and we could see what it would do- in a "controlled" environment. If what you're doing is working, don't let us mess it up.
Yes, the jack shares the lines with the beam, and if the situation continues, the waiting for the cylinder repair, I will puzzle it out and at least get the jack function back. Right now there are 2 lines in the beam, that were for the missing extension cylinder, and three capped off lines outside.
We are waiting on the hydraulic shop to get the cylinder back to us, hopefully today, once we have it in hand I'll snag my mechanic when he has time and we will first off, extract the beam and see what's up with it, if anything. The great thing about the work I have been doing is, and it's just been dumb luck, the way I've been setting up there is absolutely no reason to swing over the weak side, nothing there to pick. So working short on that side has been less hassle then messing with using the boom to get that beam out, especially still not for sure knowing it wouldn't get jammed up again. My backup plan in the meantime, one I have not had to use yet, is if/when I get a job that I can't avoid the issue by my initial setup, I'll have to tell the crew that I will have to set up, and waste some time moving trusses around, and then move and set up again so I can then safely put them in their final destination. I'll knock some time off my bill, buy them lunch, do whatever I have to do to keep every one happy. And that, if it happens, seems like less hassle then getting that beam out right now.
We are waiting on the hydraulic shop to get the cylinder back to us, hopefully today, once we have it in hand I'll snag my mechanic when he has time and we will first off, extract the beam and see what's up with it, if anything. The great thing about the work I have been doing is, and it's just been dumb luck, the way I've been setting up there is absolutely no reason to swing over the weak side, nothing there to pick. So working short on that side has been less hassle then messing with using the boom to get that beam out, especially still not for sure knowing it wouldn't get jammed up again. My backup plan in the meantime, one I have not had to use yet, is if/when I get a job that I can't avoid the issue by my initial setup, I'll have to tell the crew that I will have to set up, and waste some time moving trusses around, and then move and set up again so I can then safely put them in their final destination. I'll knock some time off my bill, buy them lunch, do whatever I have to do to keep every one happy. And that, if it happens, seems like less hassle then getting that beam out right now.
Crane op has the picture. Set it up on the three outriggers you have and swing around and pick up slightly on the beam, with just a little out pressure. You can probably boom down and cable up just enough to pull that beam out. Then you can run the front jack down and get enough cribbing under the rear jack to level the crane on all four outriggers. Without having that beam out, I would only work it directly over the front or the opposite side. The issue separate from forgetting, is if it starts to lean that direction with much boom or load it will over power your swing motor real quick. And once it starts, it’s game over at that point. But I’m not there, so I can’t judge the pucker factor real well. I also know there’s been plenty of times I’ve done things that I would never tell anyone else to do.
With the way those outriggers work off of return circuits it would be a little tricky to get the jack cylinder working without the beam cylinder. Possible but a bit of a pain. I’d just run it without until you get beam cylinder back.
With the way those outriggers work off of return circuits it would be a little tricky to get the jack cylinder working without the beam cylinder. Possible but a bit of a pain. I’d just run it without until you get beam cylinder back.
The hydraulic shop determined that the rod was straightenable (?) and did so. I have no qualms about that, they know their business. So that's dealt with, meanwhile back at the shop, we failed to pull the beam out, just spun the wheels on a forklift. past 3/4's of the way out. Before we get a bigger forklift, or a dozer, we are going to see if at my mid point is within it's workable range, where it operates normally, if so the cylinder will go back in and I at least will have my mid point capacity and my jack back. That will be a huge improvement.
The Allen wrench sockets on the lower wear pads are stripped, they are frozen in place, they are going to need to be burned out, but before we get too excited I am going to see if new ones are readily available and get some on the way, or....maybe fab some, near as I can tell the issue is on the lower ones, which don't do anything anyway except ease the extension process, they don't take any load. Worse case scenario, plastic wear pads like the boom has may be the way to go, as we will no doubt bugger the threads up getting the old steel wear pads out. I have the SLC National service manager giving me a call, maybe he has a magic solution.
The Allen wrench sockets on the lower wear pads are stripped, they are frozen in place, they are going to need to be burned out, but before we get too excited I am going to see if new ones are readily available and get some on the way, or....maybe fab some, near as I can tell the issue is on the lower ones, which don't do anything anyway except ease the extension process, they don't take any load. Worse case scenario, plastic wear pads like the boom has may be the way to go, as we will no doubt bugger the threads up getting the old steel wear pads out. I have the SLC National service manager giving me a call, maybe he has a magic solution.
I got a call from a contractor wanting me to do 3 houses, while I hemmed hawed around trying to figure out my schedule he offered up that the trusses were all there, as the trusses not showing up on time is a common problem. I flew over this weekend, and this is what I saw. I bumped him back a day, over two little jobs I had let him cut in front of, and sent him a copy of this pic.
Yes, no kidding, not what he implied! I don't take it personal, as the truss plant tells them a date, the carpenters tell me, and then it falls thru. Often enough, another job will spring up and it all works out. The plane does give me a leg up though on who/what/where.
Working on house so big today, it has two basements, big and dug into a hillside. It occurred to me that though I often have worked short jacked, it's mostly when there are no picks that way. So I don't even reset my LMI, today, for the first time since my breakdown, I had to make multiple picks over the half out beam, so I did reset the LMI of course, and bottom line is it was all good, pretty decent capacity, more then I would have guesstimated, didn't impact the job at all.
Received my new wear pads for the outrigger boom today. When and if we get that beam extracted, we will have new ones on hand. The problem is..... the old ones are froze in place, the hex fitting is stripped out, and getting them fully out without destroying the threaded boss is going to be problematic. Best we can tell, one or two somehow backed out/came out of adjustment, causing the binding, leading to the bent hyd. rod. All will become clear once we extract it. I hope.
crane operator
Senior Member
If the allens are all stripped out, just weld a washer to the head, then weld a big nut on it, and crank it out. Shouldn't damage the threads any.
Is the neoprene just glued to that bolt? I could see ice getting in there and shearing that wear puck right off that bolt.
Is the neoprene just glued to that bolt? I could see ice getting in there and shearing that wear puck right off that bolt.