1. Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

Working the National 1300A

Discussion in 'Cranes' started by Natman, Jan 3, 2017.

  1. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    6,454
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Hermann, Missouri
    First instinct usually gets men injured, baling to clear the machine is not so smart.
     
    Camshawn likes this.
  2. Natman

    Natman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Messages:
    408
    Location:
    ID
    Yeah, no seat belt though...., he wasn't wearing one anyway, so maybe bailing out was better then falling out of the cab. Instinct took over I'm sure, not like he had time to consider his options. I can't think of ever seeing one of the framers ever using the seat belt, the next time I'm on a job site with slopes to deal with, I'll mention it may be a good idea, and show them that picture.

    Over the new Mormon Temple they are building, where they had signs on the fencing, NO DRONES. I'm in an airplane, at a legal altitude, deal with it! I circled over the job site for about 5 minutes, just to make some kind of a point I guess. A huge crane onsite, lots of stick anyway. IMG_20191010_110909329~2.jpg
     
    Camshawn, pushbroom and DMiller like this.
  3. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    6,454
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Hermann, Missouri
    Had to have been driving them nuts with a plane circling. Generally they will have an open house just at completion before they lock it down for forever. We got to tour the one in Chesterfield MO, strange inside, looks a church exterior interior is like a Commercial Building all cut up into smaller office spaces, some rooms closed off where no idea what was there. Did see the Dead Christening pool where they Baptize those that have died into a life with Christ, kind of weird.
     
  4. Natman

    Natman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Messages:
    408
    Location:
    ID
    That may be the round thing at the lower left, looked like a hot tub to me.

    I doubt anyone got too excited as the construction crews are like any others, a mix of all types, not all Mormon by any means. Plus my plane is super quiet, especially throttled way back like I was. I do know that their building standards are right up there with the Feds, as in cost is no object, they overbuild if anything. I've seen them use LVL for studs, where anyone else would use 2x6 dimensional lumber, as one example.

    I'm setting trusses on a house tomorrow right down the street from the site, I may try and get in there and ask about that drone sign, just curious as to how that came about. I'll park at the gate, and put my hard hat, fluorescent green vest, and safety glasses on first, as it is that kind of job site.
     
  5. Camshawn

    Camshawn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2017
    Messages:
    78
    Location:
    Langley BC
    If you look like you belong and dress the part, no one will ask.. I have been on lots of large sites and there is always someone wandering around looking at something. A clip board is a good prop.
     
    DMiller likes this.
  6. Tugger2

    Tugger2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2018
    Messages:
    360
    Location:
    British Columbia
    Better find the the safety guy and sign in first. Once thats done your good to roam . Most never ask why your signing in.
     
    CM1995, DMiller and Camshawn like this.
  7. Knepptune

    Knepptune Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Messages:
    683
    Location:
    Indiana
    A nice shirt, new white hard hat and a clipboard and your good to go.


    A service truck is also a good way in. If your in a service truck it’s very rare to get questioned at all. Just sign in with the safety guy tell them your there to work on a fork truck and your good to go.

    I will say the new facial recognition stuff kinda wigs me out. Enter your credentials the first time, it takes a picture and every time you sign in it takes a photo to verify your not signing in as someone else. Kinda creepy. And it knows if you enter someone else’s name. I can tell you that you can’t sign in as John Doe or Joe Dirte’.
     
    DMiller likes this.
  8. hvy 1ton

    hvy 1ton Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,642
    Location:
    Lawrence, KS
    I'M NEW. I'M NEW.

     
    Tugger2, mwelding and DMiller like this.
  9. Natman

    Natman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Messages:
    408
    Location:
    ID
    I had time today, after working setting trusses just a bit over a block away, to stop by. The attached pic was taken from my cab, they were swinging like crazy the entire 3 hours I was on my job. I pulled into the fenced site, and asked the first peon I saw, while still in my rig, where the big bossman trailer was. This is the type of job, big enough, for all the subs to have their own, and it was hard to tell who was who. Turns out, the head contractor's trailer (double wide) was just outside the fenced in zone,m so I parked and left my hard hat in the truck.

    I introduced my self as the owner operator of a small crane service, working nearby, more to the point also a pilot, and flat out asked him about their posted airspace restriction. Turns out, the drone ops (different then "real planes") are regulated (if I understood him correctly) to stay at least 80' above THE HIGHEST POINT OF private property, so they were, as i expected, stretching it a bit to post a sign saying simply NO DRONES, without mentioning the required ceiling. Then I showed him the picture I took, which shows me off to the side of the site, not OVER the site, which he said was OK, being NOT overhead. Then I told him I circled directly overhead also, which was perfectly legit, and explained why. If it's sounds confrontational or I was being a jerk, it wasn't at all, which was my intent. Just to educate them on the airspace regs a bit, it was no problem whatsoever, and we both got some new information. I expected no less, and it was fun getting a close up look at the site. IMG_20191014_142341258_HDR~2.jpg
     
    DMiller, Camshawn and pushbroom like this.
  10. Natman

    Natman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Messages:
    408
    Location:
    ID
    So I show up up to tilt some walls up, turns out they are 60' long and 14' high, wood construction. Not only tilt them up, but because of the carpenters poor planning, LIFT them and put them on a hill side, so he could get at the walls underneath. This guy was a joke, and would NOT listen to anything I had to say, so I decided to just do it his way, to a point.

    He insisted only 2 points were needed for the lift, though I told him the center would bow, and the ends would droop, and IF I did get it up in one piece, the top plate would just pull off. JUST DO WHAT I TELL YOU, he yelled, OK, no problem. The tilt just started, and one end snapped, turns out he had forgotten to pull the nails that located his top plate on a snapped line, while he framed the wall. AND, he had only broken his top plate and his double top plate by 24", (not even to code) AND..... he had rigged it (his call, not mine, I told him "you built it, you rig it") right where he shouldn't, at the max weakest point. I set it down and turned the rig off and told him that was it, I was outa there. Harsh words were spoken, he used the F word several times, directed at me. I kept my cool and just got annoyed, not angry, as I did not want to set the trusses anyway, this guy was dangerous. I did mention that I had my journeyman carpenter card when he was still in diapers, (we nail benders that now operate need to sometimes let the carpenters we are working for, know that....) and why in the heck he didn't frame that wall in two sections was simply indefensible. I would have left before the failed pick, but a long time trusted contractor had arranged the job, and I didn't want to let HIM down. Turns out, this yahoo was his cousin, and he apologized to me for getting me into the situation, and I am still golden with him. I almost feel bad for giving him enough rope to hang himself, for lifting it the wrong way, but it was the way he demanded it be done and I guess he annoyed me just enough to not feel too bad about the results, just maybe he learned something. I did feel bad about the 4 carpenters, his helpers, that now had a wasted day on their hands because of their boss's ignorance.
    I should also mention, that the day was shot anyway, as this was the nearest wall, and most of the others were going to be beyond my load chart capacity, (estimated 3500 pounds, 85' away, not going to happen) with no way to get closer, as I had all kinds of other things in the way and it was a steeply sloped site, he was screwed from the get go due to his poor planning, a broken top plate was the least of problems.
     
    RangerJake72 and pushbroom like this.
  11. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    2,953
    Location:
    Grass Valley, Ca
    It is always a little nerve wracking when I get a job like that, is the customer someone that has "pull" with more influential segments of the community, and this one job going south is going to sink my reputation, but years go by and you find out later how the other shoe dropped, you were left unscathed, everybody knows the other guy's reputation.
     
  12. Tradesman

    Tradesman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Messages:
    941
    Occupation:
    Contractor
    Location:
    Ontario
    tell him this is how a journeyman gets a wall ready 50 ft. X 15 ft. High I think it’s suspended in this picture 0D9BC295-110B-45A1-BC43-9310C124F409.jpeg
     
    CM1995 likes this.
  13. Knepptune

    Knepptune Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Messages:
    683
    Location:
    Indiana
    At the safety meeting a few months ago the topic of bad riggers came up. The operators were told that under no circumstances are they to provide suggestions on how to rig stuff. They were told “refuse to make the pick if it looks unsafe, but under no circumstance, show or tell the contractor how to rig something”. Something about assuming liability. Apparently, if you express concern but go ahead and make the pick, if things go sideways a lawyer will be happy to point out that you knew better.

    Sometime’s the less you say the better off you are.
     
  14. Natman

    Natman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Messages:
    408
    Location:
    ID
    These walls were sheeted, (all that OSB adds up) and I had no warning they were going to be so long so only showed up with my usual rigging. I go across the port just a couple hundred pounds below 40K on my rear tandems, so am always weight conscious. Meaning, my adjustable chain rigging, so I could have picked it (though he insisted 2 pick points was adequate) in 3 or even 4 places . I use the chain (grade 80) to take up the slack/lengthen my other strap rigging, and I did have my telescoping spreader at 14'. It was all fruitless anyway, as the further walls were out of chart, we call a job like that a cluster something out here. I have no fears of this incident hurting my local rep, anyone who believes this guy's account (he thinks I broke his wall on purpose, why that would be to my advantage was not made clear) is someone I don't want to work for anyway.

    I have a better story coming up, I'm done with this one, just had to vent a bit.
     
    muzy, pushbroom and Tradesman like this.
  15. Natman

    Natman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Messages:
    408
    Location:
    ID
    Due to an early single digit cold snap, I had to turn on the electric boiler a bit earlier, it will stay on until March. A thermostat embedded in the concrete slab set at 50 degrees (which results in an air temp of mid 40's on average) controls it, NOT a free air thermostat, so opening the big door doesn't make it kick on. 1.8 KW boiler is all I need for the 18' by 40' building, and that 2 KW solar array, being grid tied and me not using any power to speak of all spring, summer, and fall, produces enough excess KWH credits with my utility for me to heat for free. Radiant heat slabs are great for equipment sheds, electric boilers are 100% efficient (no combustion losses) and using solar to provide the juice is simple and reliable. I used to really struggle with frigid equipment, even though the truck was plugged in (when I only had outside parking), now, life is good!

    My total maintenance/messing with the heating system annually involves turning on the breaker in the fall, and turning it off in the spring, about as simple as it gets. The big PV panel on the lower left is a spare I had that is tied into the main array. The little panel on the right by the window is just to keep an old battery topped off that powers a 20 gallon weed sprayer, so I having running water in the shed for cleaning windows and washing hands. An electric hot plate is used for hot water for getting bugs off, so I like to say the place has hot and cold running water. IMG_20191030_115545974.jpg
     
  16. Natman

    Natman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Messages:
    408
    Location:
    ID
    Here are the pics of the rail car recovery crane I mentioned a few days ago that seems to hang out a lot at the CAT dealer, just a mile down from my yard. It is a beast, looked like 1" wire rope, a pretty good clue as to it's capacity?
     

    Attached Files:

    DMiller, Tradesman and Hank R like this.
  17. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    12,947
    Location:
    G..G..G..Granville...........!!
    Judging by the model number - 300 tons..?
    I'd like to see the size of the counterweight that hangs on the back.
     
    DMiller likes this.
  18. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    6,454
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Hermann, Missouri
    Looked it up
    Tadano Mantis 30011
    Cap 150t
    Weight 88,000+/-
    Counterweight is an option!!

    On their site had photos, only one had any form of counterweight where was lifting a Class 1 six axle loco nose and was not very large
     
  19. Natman

    Natman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Messages:
    408
    Location:
    ID

    Got it back up, they used me this time, plus a different framer. Pretty windy and about wrapped up, so I had just enough boom out to set the sheeted gable. First and only time I've seen 61' (not 60 or 62'...) span, bonus room trusses. 1' O.C. on the wall studs also. I am glad to get clear of this project, we all were. As for the guy who got killed when it first collapsed, the building community has rallied around his family, and his widow will be getting a brand new house, on a lot, furnished, this spring. All volunteer labor, I'll set the trusses. Not sure you could call that a happy ending but best we could do. IMG_20200107_123433544_HDR~2.jpg
     
    CM1995, Nige, Tradesman and 1 other person like this.
  20. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2014
    Messages:
    2,857
    Location:
    Canada
    I'm curious if have a professional obligation (for lack of a better term) to report a building that isn't being built to code? I know you can refuse a lift that isn't safe but what do you when the actual construction is sub par? Kind of like Dr's./nurses have an obligation to help in an emergency or at an accident they come across.
     
    DMiller likes this.