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Working the National 1300A

Tradesman

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Messages
1,075
Location
Ontario
Occupation
Contractor
A big frame building collapsed in my area yesterday, 16' high walls, about 60' span. The contractor is one I have worked for many times, including just last week. He called me Monday for this job (I think it was for this job anyway) but I told him I was busy the rest of the week and he got a guy with a BTC boom truck. That operator is good, he just has crap equipment, and at this time I have no idea why the building fell, whether it was the boom truck operators fault or not. The paper mentioned something about the wind, but there really wasn't any all day, (dead calm) and I pay attention to that more then most. Not even any dust devils, but anything is possible. 1 dead, and one critical. I flew over the job site late today and took this picture, which IView attachment 200866 will forward to the contractor at some point, or maybe not.

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2019/...-identifies-man-injured-in-building-collapse/
I’ve seen it happen. I was setting trusses on a 60 x100 two years ago for home owners. Thankfully they had scaffolding down the center the full length of the building ( it likely saved someone’s life) they started out really well, they had three trusses put together on the ground and very well braced but it all went downhill from there. After putting up about three more trusses with very few braces I shut down and told them they needed to put more on, there was two different ethnic groups working on the building “ why I have no idea “ they spent most of there time arguing to the point where one guy swung in the trusses and kicked at the other, so they put on a few more braces and told me to get moving. This same performance happened twice more and I finally shut my engine off and got out of the crane and told them I wouldn’t go any farther until I was satisfied that it was braced enough, well in ten minutes of fighting they still hadn’t done anything and a gust of wind came along and down went 80 ft of trusses. The only good thing was they were all down off the top of the trusses arguing about how to proceed when the trusses went down. The only trusses left standing were the first three that they had put together on the ground. I went back a couple days later and the one group of people were missing and replaced by some more of the same ethnic group, I had a tailgate meeting with them and told them how thing where going to proceed “and they listened “ the trusses went up smoothly and they thanked me for my help.
 

Natman

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Dec 19, 2016
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Yeah, at some point sometimes we have to show who's in charge when we're on a job, them or us? My attitude is, me. Shutting down always gets their attention, that and saying "or I'm outa here," usually works.

Just two days ago, a new to me crew, was using the "nail a long 2x4 on top the trusses, hanging out where the next trusses go" method of truss bracing. That method is almost never seen here anymore, 90% use the metal truss clips/stabilizers, the rest use short lengths of 2x4's. I was working blind, a 2 story house on a steep slope, and when I wondered why it was taking them so long and why I was getting such conflicting directions, I jumped out of the cab and took a look see, only then seeing their method. I called them on it, told them next time they use me, it ain't going to happen, that it was an old school method not compliant with using a crane. Get the clips or get someone else.
 

Natman

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A big Mormon temple under construction, I was driving by and saw this sign while looking at the big cranes. As a pilot, though not a drone pilot, it got my hair up, I'm pretty sure they don't control the airspace overhead, point being. The Feds control the airspace, and have guidelines for drone operation these days, not any contractor who puts a sign on a fence! Though if I was a drone pilot I'd respect the sign just to be a nice guy. Or maybe, if I was bored and had nothing better to do, and was sure I was legal, I'd violate "their" airspace just to make a point. Makes me wonder, is it there for non interference with the cranes, well what about orbiting the site at 400'? Or 300'?

The second time I've seen this small tower crane taking work away from me! Not yet close to me but in my general area, and doing work that I would maybe have gotten. I have yet to find whose it is, or watch it in action, but it's area of operation is pretty sweet. I wonder how fast it cycles when setting trusses, and would like to talk to the framing crews as to the difference it makes for them. The other time I saw it was a similar large structure, I'm thinking maybe it's owned by the job's IMG_20190826_151338031~2.jpg contractor. IMG_20190903_102425287.jpg
 

Natman

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Dec 19, 2016
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More wind farm money being put to good use: a farmer with several of the big turbines on his land, is putting in a 30x40 game room and home movie theater, along with a big hot tub AND an adjacent lap pool. At 6 to 8 K monthly payment, (and they still farm as usual underneath them) guaranteed regardless of drought, pestsIMG_20190828_134920667_HDR.jpg , or other usual farming concerns, these guys are having a hard time spending the money fast enough!
 

crane operator

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Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,275
Location
sw missouri
A company that does some commercial work by me uses the portable tower cranes quite often. They build motel, apt. buildings, dormitories for college's, etc. Its a money saver if you need a crane every day or every other day on a jobsite for 6 months, vs. us in the rental game. For just a few days, the cost to bring it in and erect it and move it back out again is too great.

They used one by us in a crowded jobsite, that without a tower, would have taken a 200 ton hydro to do the work. They have their place, and once the general owns it, they find a way to use it. They are probably using it to set those wall panels, that they probably prebuilt offsite. It makes a structure go up fast.
 

Knepptune

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
757
Location
Indiana
Those little tower cranes are the future. They are remote controlled. Therefore eliminating one job. Either the operator is on the ground hooking up or he’s on top landing the load.

And the load chart is phenomenal considering the ground space they take up. That one looks to either be an Igo 36 or igo 50.

This shows the smaller brother an Ma21 compared to a 30t grove.
D05EEE41-2417-4476-AF39-F10C3FE78CAD.png

Now they are not quite as fast as a hydraulic crane with a good operator but there’s not a huge difference.
624906C3-A6BC-4E0E-87CD-6B6AF85D1CDC.jpeg
This one just showed up a few weeks back. 100’ tall 131’ jib. I believe 2200lbs at 131’. This one has hydraulic outriggers and so once the crane is fully erected you can pull the outriggers up and walk the crane to anywhere you need it. We timed setting the crane up and start to finish it took us 2 hrs. Should say it me and 1 other person.
 

crane operator

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Mar 27, 2009
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8,275
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sw missouri
You can walk it erected? I could see walking folded, but it better be flat walking erected. The tracked mobility would be a huge gamechanger for a lot of jobs. Typically most motel/hotel or apt complexes cant all be reached from 1 spot, which makes the little tower's a pain. But being able to move it would make a huge difference.

I could see hauling that rig around like my rt on a lowboy, walk it into the site, do the work and haul it out. They aren't heavy lifters, but I've got some places they would work nice for Hvac and trusses.
 

Knepptune

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
757
Location
Indiana
Ye. It can handle up to a 5% grade front to back or side to side while erected at the 26m height or 5% front to back and 2% side to side at the 30m height. I’ll get a video and post it at some point. I did convert the ground bearing psi and it’s right at 15-16 psi erected on tracks. Now you can’t pick and carry or work the crane on tracks.

Keep it mind it has 24,500kg in counterweights.

And yes these numbers are metric because the guys across the pond thought it’d be wise to quit converting load charts and specs to sae. So all the new potains only come with metric data.
 

Natman

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Here's a pic I took from the air a few weeks earlier and about 80 miles to the north, of a similar rig or maybe the same one? A similar project anyway, both appear to be motels.IMG_20190803_192813671~2.jpg

The last picture got fuzzy close up, but it seems to be the very same rig to my eyeballs. Good, the less of those things around the better! I've had the thought to get one and lease it out, but just a thought so far, I keep plenty busy doing what I'm doing and have no debt so don't want to rock the boat. But I'll kick myself if someone else local does so and actually starts making an impact on my work. "You snooze you lose."
 

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,275
Location
sw missouri
The older models were kind of neat, especially the ones that were "trailer" mounted. Hook up to the 5th wheel plate on the front and a set of tandems under the base. But most of those had hand crank short jacks, and other issues.

But I really like that track machine. Onboard gen set, hydraulic jacks, the only question is can it self erect counterweights?
 

Knepptune

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Nov 22, 2012
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757
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Indiana
Natman I happen to work for a dealer so I’m sure we could get you set up with one. The new Igo ma21’s are a custom home builders dream. Run it off a dryer hookup, it’s one load, hydraulic outriggers, remote controlled sets up in no time. And it takes up a whole 13’ square.

And yes crane op that crane does have a Derrick arm for ctws. That’s an option on all self erects you just don’t see it used much. Mainly due to the fact you have to get the trailer right up beside the crane and that’s usually not happening in the places these cranes go.
 

renovator

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Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
69
Location
New Mexico
A big Mormon temple under construction, I was driving by and saw this sign while looking at the big cranes. As a pilot, though not a drone pilot, it got my hair up, I'm pretty sure they don't control the airspace overhead, point being. The Feds control the airspace, and have guidelines for drone operation these days, not any contractor who puts a sign on a fence! Though if I was a drone pilot I'd respect the sign just to be a nice guy. Or maybe, if I was bored and had nothing better to do, and was sure I was legal, I'd violate "their" airspace just to make a point. Makes me wonder, is it there for non interference with the cranes, well what about orbiting the site at 400'? Or 300'?
View attachment 201618 contractor. View attachment 201617

Is it possible that the No Fly Zone is because it's a Mormon temple being built? Maybe they don't want people seeing it built (other than the hundreds of construction workers) and how it's laid out.
 

DMiller

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Feb 21, 2010
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Hermann, Missouri
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Cheap "old" Geezer
The LDS church built a Temple here just outside Chesterfield. All Concrete and stone, massive interior iron structure, built like a vault. Allowed a three day walk thru prior to being Sanctified and closed to public. Not all open inside as a 'Church' more like an office building inside a church façade with alcoves, special rooms and meeting areas. A smallish chapel for important events but otherwise mystique and mystery remained. Were a number of rooms and stairs(Up and Down) not open or tours allowed during that walk through.
 

Natman

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I'm not really up on the drone regs, which are different then for airplanes, but I do know no one but the Feds have the say so on closing airspace. Being a temple wouldn't change that a whit, the Feds protect their turf! No matter, if I fly over I'll be at the totally legal 500', and could orbit there for hours if I wanted, but I don't. That sign is.... a sign of the times I guess, they probably had looky loos flying at low level and being stupid, can't blame them if so.
 

DMiller

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Almost appears as they are disassembling the temp platform from casting the River Center Pier.
 

Natman

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This 6 K ft vacation home, right below the west side of the Grand Tetons, came all framed, including windows installed, on flat bed trucks. The rigging points (1" web strap loops) are built into the top plates, and balanced. The tricky part is as you pick a wall section, it will at some point slide off the stack, and they were too heavy to pinch bar them back just an inch or so so I could smoothly pivot them up to vertical. So that left just being real quick on the winch AND the boom, to kind of just snatch them off the truck. We had all the exterior walls up by noon. Then I bunk set the interior walls and left, and came back, after the recent snowfall melted, and set the trusses. 2.5 hour one way drive, made for a long day, but I had a great view!IMG_20191007_163631807.jpg
 

Natman

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Who would have thought that a 1500 pound sheeted gable truss, being picked by a telehandler on a 8% side slope, with a lot of boom out, would make the telehandler ALMOST tip over?! Everybody here probably, but the dummy on today's jobsite figured it out real quick. After he bailed out, the tilt rate slowly increased as the rig creeped back another couple feet, then everything "stabilized." After cleaning his shorts out, I suggested to the operator that sucking in a bit of boom instead of booming down (increasing the radius) may be the best option to salvage the situation. He jumped onto the high side and reaching into the cab, did so, and down she came. OSHA doesn't monitor this site, right???

The trusses were being shuttled to me, to within my operating radius, from a couple hundred feet away, don't blame me. I wasn't even watching the shuttle action, not my job, though if IIMG_20191011_103442548_HDR~2.jpg had seen the event's transpiring I would have attempted to warn them off, oh well.

Just read my post, by "down she came" I meant back onto all four wheels!
 
Last edited:

Birken Vogt

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Nov 30, 2003
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5,305
Location
Grass Valley, Ca
I would have sat there and rode it out. Think of all the time he spent in the crush zone when bailing out. But I would like to think I would not have done that in the first place.
 
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