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Worker shortage

emmett518

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2021
Messages
810
Location
USA
I'm not arguing for drug use. I have never used illegal drugs, rarely drink, and don't have drug or alcohol issues in my family. I also have a major problem with the pro-drug attitude that our society embraces. Have a headache? Take a pill. Feeling tired? Drink coffee. Kid can't concentrate in school? Ritalin. Depressed? We have a pill for that.

Having said that, I'd like to present another perspective. Not to convince you to change your mind, but to at least open it to think about other ideas.

The majority of people in the US look upon drug use and abuse as a moral failing. People use drugs because they are weak, self-centered, and lazy. You yourself said "the people I'm dealing with at least have the decency and self worth to think the same."

But if you really get to know an addict, most of them have one commonality. They all faced incredible histories of abuse. Physical abuse, mental abuse, psychological abuse and sexual abuse by adults. We're not talking strict parents here. We're talking powerless children being subjected to what would be described in adults as torture. Once you get past the defenses, and protective walls, most addicts will related to experiences that will horrify anyone with any sense of compassion.

Let me relate a story.

A friend who is a physician at Boston Childrens' Hospital volunteered to be the medical staffer on a mobile van that provided outreach for youthful and teenaged homeless kids and run aways. After the first night, my friend commented to his driver that it was sad that so many lazy, irresponsible kids were not willing to live within the constraints of their childhood homes, schools and neighborhoods, and instead, preferred to party it up on the streets.

The astonished driver pulled the van to the curb, and proceeded to explain reality to the doctor, who had no idea what was really going on.

"99% of those kids are LGBT, who when they were found out by parents, their church, or their schools, were attacked, abused, and thrown out of their houses. Think about it. How do you survive on the cold streets when you're a kid, lack money, education, maturity and experience? You sell drugs, or sell your body, and do things to survive that are horrific. These young people use drugs to self-medicate, to get through days that would cause most of us to kill ourselves. These kids aren't run aways. They're throw aways.

Addicts use drugs to self-medicate away the pain of rejection, isolation, and being unwanted. So what do we do when we find them? We exacerbate the problem by jailing them and isolating them further. We give them a criminal record that makes it almost impossible to find decent work. Without decent work, they can't find decent housing, food, medical care. They can't fit into any decent social system, and are relegated to the street / drug world that preyed on them in the first place. Think about how you would feel and then cope if you were stuck on the streets as a young teen with no money, no ability to continue education, to work, or to even get a regular meal?

Scientists have done studies, and have found that being abused psychologically and mentally is as destructive as being physically assaulted. If I walk up to you, and punch you in the face, I will be arrested and jailed. If I mentally abuse you, nothing happens. I can get away with any and all of it. Yet research shows that my abuse does far more damage than if I hit you with a bat. Think back to the time when you were physically hurt. You can't relive the experience of physical pain. You know that the punch, or the burn, or the broken bone was painful, but it's like watching it on a movie screen. It's just a memory. Think back now to the most humiliating, fear-filled, emotionally painful experience. For most of us, we'll have an instantaneous flashback as if it's happening for real once again. Physical pain is momentary, but the humiliation, fear and powerlessness associated with mental abuse never gets weaker.

Back when the Vietnam War was winding down, and plans were in the works to repatriate returning soldiers to civilized society, it was discovered that a significant number of vets were addicted to heroin. The thought that tens of thousands of drug addicts with military and combat skills would be loosed on society with an addiction to serious narcotics, petrified our leaders. So they made efforts to drug test returning soldiers, and try to get them help. After all, heroin is notoriously difficult to kick.

What they discovered is that when these kids were removed from the dangerous, stress-filled environment of war, most of them stopped taking drugs when they returned to the US. They had no more need to self medicate so they could forget the horrors that surrounded them every day. The problem was no longer a problem.

I'm not saying that we should enable drug addicts. I am saying that the war on drugs has been an abysmal failure. Even if we measure this war on the availability of narcotics, everyone would agree that you can buy any and all illegal substances in every town, county and city in our country. Further, not only can few of us understand what an addict is going through, we're not doing anything to really fix the problem. We're just mentally masturbating ourselves into feeling like we're doing somehting. Just as most of us would not discriminate against someone with a physical disability as long as they were capable of doing the job, we should reconsider our aversion to someone who is in serious psychological pain.

I'm not saying that we should tolerate drug use, or let drugged people operate heavy equipment. I am saying that what we're doing now is not working, and perhaps we should try something different. And maybe we should stop, and ask what if that addict was one of us. One of our kids. Our parents. Our siblings. Maybe we'd want to stifle the judgement, the condemnation, and the hate, and maybe try to put ourselves in their shoes.

I highly recommend the book by Johann Hari, called Chasing the Scream. It talks about the horribly racist underpinnings of the original war on drugs, and how this war is doing the exact opposite of helping the situation when it comes to our addiction problem.
 
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Randy88

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
2,149
Location
iowa
Lets take a known example from my area, the richest kids in the entire area, who grew up with a gold spoon in their mouths, were never told no by their parents, had every single luxury most would never dream of ever affording as adults, they had as kids and teenagers. Some know the type of parents they had, I think many would call them the "newer" style of parents, no spanking, no discipline, only time outs if that, just live and enjoy life and they'll grow out of that phase type of thinking. Nobody at school was allowed to do anything about it either or the parents would scream abuse, if police were called or involved, the parents would lawyer up and make the issue go away quietly, you know the new style of parenting that many embrace today, more so idolize.

Well after being involved in about everything known to mankind, when mommy and daddy didn't hand over what they wanted, drug dealing and crime was the answer to help get the newest and best diesel pickups, sports cars, exotic trips to faraway places and still live like kings, all while teens or barely out of school, yes passport in hand, it is possible to take exotic trips while being dismissed from high school to vacation on a beach somewhere else.

Well most know where this is going, so once the parents finally do throw up their hands, basically 20 years too late and all of their own making, their kids were in jail, for using [addicts] and also manufacturing and distributing narcotics, a long rap sheet of crime from theft to armed robbery, attempted murder, rape and and don't forget the abortions the daughter had starting when she was 10, [by having sex with teens because she was bored and wanted to teach her parents a lesson] and are now their all spending what's left of their spoiled worthless lives behind bars. [Guess the drugs and alcohol was used to take the pain away of not getting the new 250k sports car this week]

Now for the entire area, this was a huge relief and also most viewed it as a way for some spoiled worthless kids to finally learn the lesson of the word "no" and oh yea, you can now 1, do what your told when your told, 2 learn your not special and there are consequences for everything in life, 3 if you make a mistake, you can learn to pay for your mistake, 4 keep your hands to yourself, 5 your life is in your own hands and you get out of it what you yourself make of it, 6 treat others the way you'd like to be treated, 7 life isn't fair or equal to anyone, 8 certain social norms will be followed at all times, 9 live within your means, 10 when you step outside those bounds you will pay for it one way or another, 11 say please and thank you, 12 your not entitled to anything you didn't earn or work for, 13 your not special and I'm sure there are a host of others I've forgotten but its too bad nobody told them this before they wound up doing hard time behind bars for decades, not really sure anyone where they are at will do as good of job as their parents should have, but you know after all its only a phase they are going through.

Now for the parents, who pretty much wound up broke due to legal fee's and are now working a meager job in a modest home, [after losing it all] I guess parenting didn't work out too well, but the upside is this, they at least now know where their kids are, and every time they go to visit, they know they'll be there and can see them.

I'm sure your probably right, there are always a percentage of people who get a raw deal growing up, and the last I looked and knew about, there are also churches and places to go for help for those same people. Now if you choose to go down the hardship road of whoa and use that as an excuse, you can also take note there are far more who had it far worse and still turned out just fine, those that lost a parent or both parents due to death or accidents, those from homes of abuse that turned out fine, from homes of alcoholics, drug addicts, mental problems, health problems and a host of other issues and those all turned out fine, fact is, there is no such thing as a perfect up bringing in a perfect home, it doesn't exist, never has, parents as well as kids learn by doing and trial and error. Can anyone honestly say they never made a mistake, how about as parents?? how about as kids growing up?? as a spouse, community member, neighbor, everyone makes mistakes, the real issue comes by being able to determine yourself what mistake you made and try not to keep making the same ones over and over again.

You can give any excuse you want for anything, but in the end that's what it is, an excuse to do the wrong thing.

I've known plenty of addicts, maybe hundreds over the years, the single thing I've learned is this, you can't change anything in life until your ready to do just that, change your life, nobody can force you or do it for you, you have to want to do it yourself, that goes for alcoholics, drug addicts, and about any sort of abuse, its not till they hit rock bottom and have no lower to go and really want to change, can they then get the help they need, anything short of that, those around them are only enabling the addict and nothing more.

I have alcoholics in my own family, I swore I'd never turn out like that ever no matter what, I've got drug addicts within my family, its not the life for me, I have far better things to do and made the choice at a young age I wanted no part of that life, same goes for marital problems, abusive behavior and a host of other problems, I don't need to go out in public to see any of them, I'm related to enough the way it is, I grew up around it all, yet, here I am today. By the way, most of the rest, have made a habit of blaming others for so long, their experts on making excuses for their behavior and in the end, that's what it is, an excuse and nothing more.

The vast amount of drug addicts around that I know, didn't wind up out on the streets, they started out hanging out with the wrong crowd, started out being rebellious kids, living life according to their own terms, and once started down that road, chose to stay on that road and have nobody to blame but themselves, but would rather blame everyone else instead. A few did change, most didn't, of those that didn't are the ones today screaming the need to do away with drug testing for a job, those that did change, want drug testing in order to help them stay clean and to prove to everyone else they are doing just that, for those that never did drugs, drug testing is a non issue, more of a hassle and some more BS to contend with because others chose the illegal road filled with excuses, so look at it any way you'd like.
 

DMiller

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
16,550
Location
Hermann, Missouri
Occupation
Cheap "old" Geezer
I was that rebellious sh!t in HS, ran with the other rebellious Sh!ts, entered military service and had the rebel suppressed, learned was nobody going to aid me but my own self and did change. Military today is not what it was forty years ago, kinder gentler, more touchy feely than those days of a DI in your face explaining how your Ass was HIS and HIS alone if did not work harder to measure up. Do not see how it can change for the better currently as schools are teaching same and none of the hands off do not yell at the little miscreant sh!ts has ever really worked yet they continue the insanity of repeating that same basis expecting a different response.

Burger joints and restaurants cannot find help in our little slice of civilization, help wanted, mechanic wanted, driver wanted, permanent signage at nearly every business, offering unheard of wages some with sign on bonus packages that go unapplied for as requires attention to clientele, details, nobody going to diagnose for you and no one going to explain how to repair or serve or cook or operate the functions. Fight for each yard of distance or fail and they will not try to manage that. Sis In Law in CO is a retired teacher, she instructed on that touchy feely no penalty basis where now sees less than a third of her past class students are either working or gaining value as active citizens, blames it on everyone/everything else and not her and associates style of teaching. Will not soon change for the better until the economy collapses fully then it will be all for one and one for all in a free for all fight to survive.
 

John C.

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
12,870
Location
Northwest
Occupation
Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
Oh whoa is me, the sky is falling, civilization is about to end as we know it, the government is all at fault, teachers and lawyers are all to blame and on and on.

The common refrain when I was in the service was that a bitching sailor was a happy sailor. By that meme, we must be the happiest country in the world. Instead of just bitching, maybe do something instead.
 

Buckethead

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2007
Messages
1,055
Location
Waterfront
Occupation
Operator
But if you really get to know an addict, most of them have one commonality. They all faced incredible histories of abuse. Physical abuse, mental abuse, psychological abuse and sexual abuse by adults. We're not talking strict parents here. We're talking powerless children being subjected to what would be described in adults as torture.

I think there is a lot of truth to that. You know how as kids grow up, some go down one path, and some the opposite? I think about kids I grew up with who went down the wrong road. I could just have easily gone down that road if I had not had a good family. My parents were involved in my life. Not to mention an extended family of aunts and uncles in the neighborhood. If I didn't have my family looking out of me, maybe I would have gotten caught up in something bad, too. The other thing is that I grew up before things like OxyContin and that crap were so available.
 

BigWrench55

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2018
Messages
1,176
Location
Somewhere
Accountability is the word that no one wants to hear and except. This is a matter of choices and you choose your own misery or your success. I grew up poor and hung around some bad characters. In my younger years I tried anything but working for the things I wanted. Then the day came that I had to make a choice. Sit around and bitch about the things I don't have. And blame others for my poor choices. Or change my behavior and work for the things I wanted. It wasn't a easy road and it was humbling to except responsibility for my short comings. But I made the choice to stop f-ing around and push through to get what I wanted. It's all about choices and nothing more. Excepting responsibility for those choices and choosing to do something about is part of the recipe for success. Sitting around and looking for reasons to justify your bad choices is a sure fire way to fail. I'm not a victim of circumstance. I succeed despite of my circumstances. And I thank the Lord for my failures and successes. And without God I couldn't have peace for the things that I don't have. This is the day that the Lord has made and I will rejoice in it.
 

Truck Shop

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Messages
16,871
Location
WWW.
A great responsibility teacher is working around animals. I grew up on a dairy in the 60's-milking 110 head with vacuum buckets-no pipe line.
In a nine stall milk parlor, every cow had a name and I knew how much grain each one got. Carry each stainless bucket to dump in tank, took
four hours every morning and every night. Plus putting out hay and silage in winter and any doctoring any cow needs. Plus feeding all the
heifers'. chickens and any other critters. The animal comes first you eat last-that's the way that life is. Then during what's left of the day you
performed all the other chores. It taught responsibility at a young age.
 

Sberry

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
395
Location
Brethren, Michigan
Occupation
Farmer
My Father got out of cows when I was a tiny sp[rout, I can just remember it yet. I cant say I wished for them back. We had on farm sales of potatoes that somehow managed to work itself in to a year around scheme. Crap is never ending.
 

skyking1

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2020
Messages
7,609
Location
washington
Back when the Vietnam War was winding down, and plans were in the works to repatriate returning soldiers to civilized society, it was discovered that a significant number of vets were addicted to heroin. The thought that tens of thousands of drug addicts with military and combat skills would be loosed on society with an addiction to serious narcotics, petrified our leaders. So they made efforts to drug test returning soldiers, and try to get them help. After all, heroin is notoriously difficult to kick.
My flight instructor and dear friend was a medic in Viet Nam.
His service knew of the tremendous number of guys hooked on heroin, and they made their own unofficial detox centers. They worked with these guys to get them clean BEFORE they shipped stateside. He said it was one of the most worthwhile things he did over there.
 

Aarons81

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2021
Messages
133
Location
Central Ohio
It's hard to find the good apples mixed in with the bad ones. I've got at least half a dozen that I've helped straighten out there lives. I've also got a couple bushel full of the ones that would get on track and as soon as they were getting on there feet they'd fall right back in to the same crap. Had one guy that I tried at least 6 times until I finally had to wash my hands. Count less items stolen, picking them up every mourning to get them to work. Helping out with bills from time to time. If they don't want to better them selves, there's no amount of help you can give.
 

Tones

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2009
Messages
3,078
Location
Ubique
Occupation
Ex land clearing contractor, part-time retired
Emmett, the military has for a very long time dosed up service personnel on active service with Speed. They started doing it during WW II and every campaign since. Just saying.
 

DMiller

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
16,550
Location
Hermann, Missouri
Occupation
Cheap "old" Geezer
Work force placement companies are dying here, cannot get applicants either for even permanent positions. Have been explained the youth now feel they should only work a short time, quit then draw UI until can't then go back to work elsewhere for another short term. Sad state of affairs as we just get older.
 

CM1995

Administrator
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
13,342
Location
Alabama
Occupation
Running what I brung and taking what I win
We've been trying without any luck to find people who are willing to work.

Site work is plentiful at the moment but how can you perform the work on time and on budget when you need a 6 man crew and only have 2?
 

Truck Shop

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Messages
16,871
Location
WWW.
I deal with two tire dealers-one has had three people quit in the last two weeks the other is on a constant turn over. When either one sends
a newbie to the shop more than likely I have to stop what I'm doing and watch them closely. I don't know the names of 70% of our drivers,
here today gone tomorrow. Equipment repair costs have climbed every month. Gayle has been gone for 6 months since he retired and I haven't
bothered to try and replace him-more trouble than it's worth at this point.
 

JD955SC

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2011
Messages
1,356
Location
The South
Work force placement companies are dying here, cannot get applicants either for even permanent positions. Have been explained the youth now feel they should only work a short time, quit then draw UI until can't then go back to work elsewhere for another short term. Sad state of affairs as we just get older.

Just remember the system isn’t broken, it’s by design
 

Carolina start up

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2020
Messages
213
Location
north Carolina
id like to add to this fun story when I was 18 I went and applied to the local grading company to be a laborer for 10 an hour they pulled my chain for 6 months and no job was given. they actually did that to a lot of people so leaves a bad feeling recently they were trying to find bout 50-100 people to fill all sorts of positions. so who would yall blame for their shortages them for playing with people for months over the last couple of years and that spread around that they would just hire someone if they knew someone so people stopped apply or the people for getting tired of it and going another place where everywhere in town offers 12 but they still only offer 10 for general labor hell McDonald's is offering 15.
 

Sberry

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
395
Location
Brethren, Michigan
Occupation
Farmer
Ya, that was kind of my point. I dont blame some of them for saying screw u. Lots of places were yelling how great they were to work for till they hired on then yank the chain as soon as they got people, saw a owners wife come on to a floor, from her Mercedes while wearing heavy jewelry and "explain" how it would be a hardship surely put her in the poor house if they give up a dollar an hour. Same woman run for office next month telling everyone how much sghe was gonna do for the poor. Got a big ole help wanted sign on the front now and going to meetings splainin how its a hardship on her now.
 
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CM1995

Administrator
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
13,342
Location
Alabama
Occupation
Running what I brung and taking what I win
There are many, many anecdotal stories of specific employers or employees that we can all retell, each with their own slant but that doesn't address the larger issue.

There is a real labor shortage that is the result of a multitude of issues from the education system pushing all children into a college degree over the last 30 years to the gov't paying people to sit at home. It's a real problem for our entire Country that's going to take all of us as a society to fix.
 
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