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Why Don't You See Tracked Loaders With Elevated Drive Sprockets?

Discussion in 'Track Loaders (NOT CTL)' started by Dayton3, Jun 8, 2009.

  1. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Active Member

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    I guess this should be a question for CAT. But I always wondered why I've never seen one of their tracked loaders with the elevated drive sprocket that is featured on so many of their dozer.

    Does the elevated drive sprocket offer no advantages to tracked loader applications?
     
  2. CM1995

    CM1995 Administrator

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  3. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Active Member

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  4. Hendrik

    Hendrik Senior Member

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    My understanding is that high tracks in dozers have advantages in that you reduce the amount of loading and wear on the drive train, as all it does is drive the tracks rather than carry the weight of the machine and side loads. Also the drive sprocket is subjected to less abrasive material. Which may well mean you can build a lighter final drive unit and have more heavy duty idlers to do the hard work.
    Another factor is weight distribution, in a loader you want the weight as far back as possible, which means having the drive train in the middle of the machine would be a bad thing. Or in other words the gearbox and final drives act as counterweights.
    The R and D people at Cat have probably looked into high track loaders and more than likely found that any advantages of high tracks is outweighed by the negatives.
     
  5. stumpjumper83

    stumpjumper83 Senior Member

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    dayton3, trackloader's with backhoes... come on man I'm not going to fall for that trick...


    Actually I have a hoe that pins on the rear of my deere 450c, I dont know how large it is but I have 16, 24, & 30" buckets for it...

    Its actually at a job right now building a pad for a barn that a mini hoe started and couldnt finish. Just because its old and outdated doesn't mean it cant move dirt, neither the dirt or level have changed in a really long time.
     
  6. jrtraderny

    jrtraderny Well-Known Member

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    Well , years ago I rented a 931 Cat from my dealer that had a factory hoe on it. Worked real good for a counterweight, and dug good too.
    jr
     
  7. loaderman

    loaderman Member

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    the drive sprockets aren't elevated because you would rip the drive out of it ,do to the fact a track loader has no tourqe converter ,so the tranny keeps going .
     
  8. Ross

    Ross Senior Member

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    High driver with suspended undercarage are good for Pushing. Power the track and the rear rollers will dive down digging in for traction.

    Track loader dont need such Traction.
     
  9. Burnout

    Burnout Senior Member

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    Ok I saw this reply last night and I needed some time to let this one simmer into my mind. I think you need to explain this one out a little bit further. How do you figure you would rip the drive out of an elevated sprocket undercarriage on a track loader?

    Cat rear engine trackloaders do not have a T.C., in the same respect the C series and now the D series machines do not have a transmission either. They have an HPCU but in a true sense it is not a transmission. It's a power control unit for the drive motors.

    I am not looking for a High-Drive trackloader anytime soon, I can see some instances where it might be better than a traditional undercarriage machine, but I don't feel like losing the low CoG because my 973 already feels pretty unstable on a side slope.

    I would love the extra traction though, My 973C is always looking for extra traction, My machine comes to a dead stop all the time pushing, but the tracks are still moving. I'm sure a set of single grouser pads would help a lot, but these things ride had enough as it is.

    Definately looking for an explanation on the drives thing though.... especially from a guy who has an email address, "num1loaderman"
     
  10. loaderman

    loaderman Member

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    this is what i was told by a mechanic,I was taking about 973 a s and b models with a trany.I dont thing u could put high track on a loader with the engine in the back .For the traction u were saying,I ran a 963c with corked tracks in camrose ab last year,9 meter cut,lots of traction but ,it did major damage later on about 5 grand,pump that run track motor blew,and for my email address nickname given to me 28 years ago,when i ran 1 st 953 in ontario 1980.
     
  11. Backyard

    Backyard Member

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    My impression was...

    :cool: The elevated sprocket is an off road differential vs the flat-track, that is a fabricated box with an open differential, unit-differential's allowing easier maintenance.

    Do the new flat-track tractors have a unit-differential?

    Also, most track-type loaders have no grouser's on the tracks...

    Why would a loader be running diagonally on a grade?
     
  12. Burnout

    Burnout Senior Member

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    I have also run a 963 with corked tracks... and I will never run one again. The 973A's also had the hydrostat system in them, only the early units were P/S. If you did run a high drive track loader, you would lose the engine being in the rear, unless you are going to mount the cab at the very front of the tractor which is going to make you want to redsign your loader linkage. It could be done, but I have no desire to ever see one, along with single grouser tracks, don't feel like seeing those either. The one thing I love about our 973's is that they pack the ground like crazy when we turn and makes a much nicer looking ditch before the packer comes in and messes it all up.

    Who were you running a 63C for over in Camrose? There aren't many companies in this area who want to tackle a job like that. And if you have run a 73... kinda limites it further down to either The Way, or Eng Con.
     
  13. Burnout

    Burnout Senior Member

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    Ok, I figured a second reply would work for this, since im too stooooopid to learn how to use multi quotes in a reply. I run diagonally on grade all the time. Most of the time we have someone push away or kick as we call it from the mainline hoe. Most of the time that means one of the track loaders has to go up at the end of the day and dress the pile. We just level it all off, make it even so water won't pool and make it look good for the boss. You end up on the side slops on the back side a lot, and sometimes we crash the walls of our ditch near the end of the job so its easier to get in and out.

    I have found out though.... a 973 on a really steep angle will slide down the pile juuuuuuust before it starts to roll over. I even have a video of that action.
     
  14. ih100

    ih100 Senior Member

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    Never been on a 73, but loads of time on 53's and 63's. This sliding/tipping thing depends on the type of ground and what's buriied in it. I've had a track lift on a sideslope before sliding, I've also slid and had a track lift when I've hit the bottom. Don't know about other types, but on firm footing, a Cat TTL will sit on quite a severe sideslope before tipping, and on loose material will, as Burnout says, slide quite easily a long, long time before the tip angle is reached. Going up a slope diagonally increases stability while allowing a fair load to be pushed, while going straight up you don't push much, or if you do you do it at a crawl. Carrying a full bucket on any amount of sideslope rather than pushing material isn't too clever, as you quickly lose stability.
     
  15. Burnout

    Burnout Senior Member

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    I have lifted a track when I hit the bottom, that was definately not a good day. The closest I have ever come to biffing my loader was when I was crawling up a very very slipper slope out of a hole one day and my track started sliding and I slid sideways and almost off the ramp I made. All I ended up doing was goin wide open on the speed, steering down into it and just ended up at the bottom again. It was kinda fun though at the same time. Carrying buckets going down the slope is definately a new experience.