Which Excavator?

[Parker22]

Hey all,

Our operation is considering getting a excavator. We currently have a Deere 410g extenda hoe and a Deere 320D skid. We do ditch work as well as some demolition. We are wanting to grow the business and think a larger machine may be a good way to do that.

It would be used for ditch work (replacing tin horns...etc.) and demolition. We want more reach them the 410g. We are interested in a 230c lc or a 240d lc with the 11` 10" arm. Or maybe a 225d lc with a arm about that long. Or even a 200c if they are heavy enough for demo. We have a corn crib demo lined up and it is going to be quite the demo and I don't know if the 200 is on the small side for that or not. It doesn't seem to have very much over our how.

Well input would be great. Thanks.

 

[norite]

Theres been a lot of posts on best excavator here, have you searched or browsed the previous posts in this forum?

I think there are no really bad modern excavators, they are remarkably similar. You need to decide which of the minor differences are important to you and as many others have already stated, having a support system such as a nearby dealer with good mechanics and parts availability is often the deciding factor.

I bought a used 320 Cat excavator, mostly for basement excavation, culvert replacement, land clearing and demolition etc. This was to extend the capability of my JD 310se backhoe. The biggest reason I bought the cat was it was the right size, Cat has extensive service and parts available and the general condition and the price was right. I would have bought a machine from any of several other manufacturers if that was the deal that presented itself.

 

[TrentNz]

20-25 tonne machine would probably be good, but for ditch clearing it may be too big?
a must have for demolition is a decent thumb, trust me it will save you so much hastle in the long run.

 

[Parker22]

20-25 tonne machine would probably be good, but for ditch clearing it may be too big?
a must have for demolition is a decent thumb, trust me it will save you so much hastle in the long run.

We want a hydraulic thumb.

Deere and Cat are what are around and both would provide good support.

What can you guys tell me about leasing a machine? We may go that route as we don't feel we have enough business yet to justify buying one. This is a side business that I am hoping to develop into a bigger business. We farm for a living.

 

[CM1995]

What can you guys tell me about leasing a machine? We may go that route as we don't feel we have enough business yet to justify buying one.

The local Cat salesman ran some lease numbers for me on a 320 and a 321 recently. I haven't leased a machine before but tough times have one researching all options available.

My deal involved trading a backhoe in and leasing a new trackhoe. A 4 year lease is approx. $2K a month with me paying the rental taxes, which varies State to State. Not a bad deal considering the machine comes with a 4 year power+hyd warranty, so it's under warranty during the lease period. The buyout at the end of the lease is $78K with a 1500 hour/year usage allowance.

It's a pretty good deal IMO. In my area it costs $2k +/- with all the extra fees per week to rent a 320 from the Cat Rental Store. I don't have enough work at the moment where I am renting a hoe for a week every month and I am not comfortable signing up for a $2K per month payment for 4 years. It would be nice to have one but I have made do with what I have.

 

[Parker22]

The local Cat salesman ran some lease numbers for me on a 320 and a 321 recently. I haven't leased a machine before but tough times have one researching all options available.

My deal involved trading a backhoe in and leasing a new trackhoe. A 4 year lease is approx. $2K a month with me paying the rental taxes, which varies State to State. Not a bad deal considering the machine comes with a 4 year power+hyd warranty, so it's under warranty during the lease period. The buyout at the end of the lease is $78K with a 1500 hour/year usage allowance.

It's a pretty good deal IMO. In my area it costs $2k +/- with all the extra fees per week to rent a 320 from the Cat Rental Store. I don't have enough work at the moment where I am renting a hoe for a week every month and I am not comfortable signing up for a $2K per month payment for 4 years. It would be nice to have one but I have made do with what I have.

That doesn't sound too bad. More than we are wanting to spend but I assume that is for a brand new machine? Did the 2k a month account for the trade? Also about what is the MSRP for a 320 or 321 like you are looking at? Are similar leasing terms available for used machines?

There is a used cat 324 for sale through our closest cat dealer, its just a bit more than we are wanting to spend. If we knew the work was there that would be one thing. But as of right now we could cover about one years payment with what we have lined up. Were not wanting to spend much over 100. Maybe slightly more for a newer machine.

 

[Parker22]

As to renting. We have tried for over a month! No where around has machines available they are all out. Nice weather has people working I guess.

 

[CM1995]

Yes they are both 2012/2013 models. The deal involved trading a 420D in, roughly $40-50K trade in value. Sales price was high $190's for a 320E L and around $210 for a 321CLCR. The 321 is tier 3 while the 320E is tier 4.

I don't know if Cat Financial leases used equipment or not but there are avenues out there that do lease used equipment.

 

[Colorado Digger]

I may as well chime on as well. First, I can't see you can't find a rental hoe in the middle of December. You may have to reach into a different market to find one but it should be very easy to find a low hour rental machine this time of year. Second, if you have the work; save 50 to 70k and go to the auction. I have seen 320cl's with thumbs going for 70k. 2500-3500 hrs. If you want to buy a Case, Tachi, Komatsu you should be able to get a 200 class hoe with a thumb with 3500hrs for 50-60k. I bought a 210 with 4000 hrs for 45k 2 years ago. You may have to shop but now is the time. Remember a 200 class machine can get a ton of work done so be ready. The 160 class/315 is also real popular because they are not so wide. We don't have trouble moving our iron around so I prefer the 210/225 class.
I was at Wagner Cat in Denver a few weeks ago and they had 320's all over the place soyou may need to pick up the phone. I would not pay more than 4k a month for a 320 class with a thumb this time of year.

regards and merry christmas, CD

 

[Parker22]

We will keep an eye out for local-ish auctions. Leasing appeals to us a lot though due to the fear of not getting enough work. I suppose if a machine was purchased it could be sold if the work was not there.

For those of you that went out and bought a machine how have you been when it comes to finding work? We keep somewhat busy in the off season (farming off season) with what we have but would like to expand it in order to provide someone with enough income to consider it as a full time job. (myself) We don't quite have enough farm ground at the moment to allow me to farm anymore than I am and I am sure some of you guys know how difficult it can be to expand. Farming is my dream, but I also love doing this type of work. I went in with the farm about a year ago and I bought the skid and single axel dump truck, but I have not been getting enough work in order to make a living. It has been great "supplemental" income but we are hoping that expansion of this business could open doors to bigger and higher paying jobs. We do not own a low boy, but a neghibor does and he would rent to us at a good rate. We will need to add a wet kit to our semi, but that is no big deal.

We also simply do not know what machine size would be best for us. The 200 size seems great on paper, but to look at them the arm seems "small" and not something that would be too good for demolition. We are trying to get ahold of a deere 200 or 230/240 to rent for a crib demolition. CAT has nothing around at the moment. The digging depth for a Deere 200c/200d is not even 2 feet longer than what our 410g extendahoe is.

 

[JBGASH]

Take CD's advice and find a good machine on an auction at a reasonable cost. It will not be near as painful if it is sitting until ample work is available to make ends meet. The 200 class excavator will work circles around the 410G. There is a Richie Bros. auction in St Louis that will have several excavators on it. Good Luck

 

[Aron]

The medium ton of excavator is similar,maybe they have their own small advanatage,just pay attention to which point important to you.

 

[buckfever]

JBGASH is right on the money. You will blow that back-hoe out of the water with a 200 ex. no matter what depth. Have you also thought about all the support and transporting extras you are going to need when buying a big machine? Run a 200 or 240 hard all day you will need at least a 75 gallon fuel tank in your truck to fill up every day. When you move these machines down the road your going to need a over-with permit.

 

[Deereman]

Hey all,

Our operation is considering getting a excavator. We currently have a Deere 410g extenda hoe and a Deere 320D skid. We do ditch work as well as some demolition. We are wanting to grow the business and think a larger machine may be a good way to do that.

It would be used for ditch work (replacing tin horns...etc.) and demolition. We want more reach them the 410g. We are interested in a 230c lc or a 240d lc with the 11` 10" arm. Or maybe a 225d lc with a arm about that long. Or even a 200c if they are heavy enough for demo. We have a corn crib demo lined up and it is going to be quite the demo and I don't know if the 200 is on the small side for that or not. It doesn't seem to have very much over our how.

Well input would be great. Thanks.

I know it might be hard on you but if it was me with the machines you listed I would get a 240D. I really like what they did with the overall machine vs the 230/230c. That being said I believe you can find a good 230clc with 2500-4500 for a good price. I know your not looking for a 270c and how you plan on moving it, but I have a friend of mine that has a 270clc with 28xx? on it he's thinking bout getting rid of. That and you're a little bit away from here.

 

[kevin37b]

If you are doing demo , a 200 size machine with thumb will work fine . I have demo'd several cribs . Get a hold on thesheet metal at the bottom edge and wiggle it off . Place it on scrappers trailer and wave goodby . Diga huge hole next to structure , and knock it in . A little fire that night , you are ready to backfiil in the morning .

 

[KSSS]

If your not for sure what size machine you want, it sounds like you would be best served to find a dealer with a couple different sized machines and either rent them or in this area they have areas near by that you can spend a day digging, then decide the right sized machine. I really cant see how you can justify the expense of a 240 sized machine to do the kind of work you listed. If your used to the capacity of a backhoe you might not have a good frame of reference as to how much material these machines can move. A long stick 160 has similiar reach to a 210 without the width or weight. Adding a breaker to a smaller machine would give you the capacity to take on larger concrete demo projects without needing such a large ex. I dont know the details of your operation and what you look to demo but these are some things perhaps to think about.

 

[DGODGR]

There is much more to consider, than just reach, when looking at the differences between a 15' class backhoe (the 410 is in that class) and a 20 tn excavator. As many have said the excavator will be so much more productive you will never want to go back to the 410. It will feel like the job is taking for ever. It will, when compared to the 320/200, because it's like you are using a teaspoon compared to a shovel. A 20 ton machine may only have a 2' deeper dig depth but I bet it may be a bigger difference in reach at ground level. You also have to look at how the excavator is equipped. There are different boom and dipper combinations that make big difference in reach and capacity. I bought a 315CL with a long dipper and a reach boom so it has about the same reach a 20tn (std dipper) but it will not have the lift capacity, or break-out forces, of the same machine with a standard dipper, or a 20tn with either set up. I also loose a little stability over a standard dipper equipped 315.
If I had a years worth of work for a 320, I would look at purchase over rental. IMO a lease is really the same as a purchase. I "leased" my 315 when I bought it (back in 2003). It was a five year lease and it had a $1 buy out at the end. Somehow I saved a bit of $ on ownership taxes over the life of the lease. If you are nervous about the long term committment then I think that it would make the auction route a bit more attractive. If you get a good price, on the right machine, you would have MUCH less depreciation than with a new machine. If you did not get any work for it, after your initial years worth of work, you could sell it. The difference between the purchase price, and the sale price, will be less than what you would rent it for over that same period. Historically Cats will hold there value better over the long term. Something to consider if you think you might have to unload it.
IME you will probably find plenty of work for it. Once you have an excavator you will open yourself up to a lot more opportunity than what a backhoe can bring.

 

[CM1995]

I have seen 320cl's with thumbs going for 70k. 2500-3500 hrs.

Which auction and when. I am serious, those are great prices for 320s with a thumb and those hours.

The Ritchie and Iron Planet auction results are much higher on machines sold in the last year. Deanco and JM Wood, the two regional auctions show similar results. The cheapest late model 320's with those hours sold well over $70K.