Where to start... 1845b

[IpswichCASE]

Hello everyone. I am new here and to be honest new to skid steers. I have been looking for a skid steer for a few years, not wanting to purchase anything expensive. I am simply a homeowner and will be using my skid for personal purposes.

I found a Case 1845b (I think a b) from a man who used it to move a small hill area in his yard. He was the 2nd owner and was selling due to his health and the fact he didn't need it anymore. It has the 188d diesel engine and as you can see in the picture needs some attention. I purchased it not running in December 2020 and have really done nothing to it. Cold weather is around the corner and I want to have her up and running for the snow. As the thread title states.... Where Do I Start?

What I'm hoping this site and forum will do is help me understand the machine and it's quirks. 2 questions I have off the bat are:

1. How do I truly identify my machine? Is there a model/serial number that will tell me exactly what I have? Year, model, options? I will grab a pic of that today and post it if that helps.
2. Suggestions or a script to help me troubleshoot why it will not start.
   - I have installed a new battery
   - We drained and filled here with new oil and changed the filter
   - New fuel filters
   - Dirty Jim (the guy helping me who knows diesel engines and has a backhoe and excavator) cracked fuel lines etc to see if fuel is flowing
   - We pumped some ether into the intake
   She wants to start but I am sure fuel is the issue... getting it there.
   I purchased a pump rebuild kit... have not done anything yet.
   Suggestions???

Anything at all anyone wants to contribute I am all ears and grateful.

 

[Muffler Bearing]

[/ATTACH]
Welcome to the bizarre world of 1845 freaks, you are among the many
The ID plate should be under your left leg, but it could easily be missing. If it is a # is stamped on the chain case.....somewhere.
I'd use a remote fuel source like a soda bottle of fuel. run a line into the pump intake, (not pictured) then run the other line, the fuel return (blue line) into the bottle too. Crank it, crack lines, suck on it, whatever it takes to have clean fuel going in and fuel with not air bubbles coming out.
I guess you've got a low pressure, transfer pump in there too. See if that's doing anything.

 

[IpswichCASE]

I'll try that.

Side question... I tried to attach a pic... how the heck does it work? I'm familiar with other boards.. I read the sticky. I want to post pics of what I have so people can see what I am dealing with.

 

[IpswichCASE]

oh ... I think I figured out pics.

I have disconnected some lines to see if fuel would come out.

Does the primer pump operation work like this? Unscrew the pump plunger, pump, then screw it back tight before cranking over? When I prime should it get solid like pumping the fuel ball on an outboard motor fuel line?

I took off the radiator and hydraulic radiator to gain access to everything. Should I NOT crank the engine without the hydraulic radiator connected??

 

[Muffler Bearing]

yeah that will make an oil mess if you crank it

 

[Delmer]

You can run a hose from your hydraulic lines into a clean bucket with a lid on for trying to get it to start, or better yet, connect the hoses, bypassing the cooler. If the cooler is shot, you can run it all winter without the cooler if you want to.

I've never seen a priming pump like that except attached to an inline injection pump. Is that a "custom" add on? I'd get rid of it if you can't prove it was original. You will have a hard time priming the fuel system if everything is old and leaky and there's no priming pump. Use a temporary tank, mounted higher than the engine, or add a couple PSI of air pressure to the tank with a piece of inner tube with the air valve clamped around the filler. Are you getting any fuel through, or out of the injection pump? Does it have an electrical shut off or cable shut off? and is it working?

 

[IpswichCASE]

Thanks for the replies. My background is that I have only driven skid steers... never worked on one because I have never owned, one until now. Add to that the one I have driven is gas, not diesel. Diesel is new to me. I am mechanical and understand principals. I am not afraid of this 188d engine... actually looking forward to understanding it and keeping it alive. So, if you could bear with me I think the learning curve will be relatively quick.

or better yet, connect the hoses, bypassing the cooler

That is what I will due.

I've never seen a priming pump like that except attached to an inline injection pump

You stumped me with "inline". This primer pump is obviously before the injection pump. I have been told to add an electric primer pump. Suggestions/recommendations on that thought would be welcome.

Are you getting any fuel through, or out of the injection pump?

I am getting fuel to the pump. If you think creating a remote tank and mounting it high above the engine to create some fuel pressure is enough to give the injector pump a boost I'll do that with an old jerry jug I have (God knows over the years I've collected a bunch). I'll report back what happened.

 

[IpswichCASE]

Quick question, the fuel shutoff on the injector pump... I am assuming when it is pulled forward the shutoff is engaged. Disconnecting the wire cable (it is shot and needs to be replaced) will result in the lever springing backwards opening up the fuel flow. Correct?

 

[Delmer]

Yes, you almost always pull to shut off, push in to run. Sometimes it helps to have the throttle set to full speed for starting.

Yes, the arrow is pointing to the overflow/return line. You should have fuel coming out of that when you crank the engine over.

Yes, the primer functions as you described. I still say it looks odd and I'd get rid of it eventually, but it seems to be working so that's probably not going to keep it from starting. I like to use a temporary tank because you know it's fresh fuel and it eliminates what could be in the tank plugging up.

You have a Stanadyne rotary injection pump, that style of priming pump is typical on inline injection pumps, you'd know them when you see them, the injection lines come out the top in a line, separate pumps elements off a crankshaft.

Does the engine seem to crank over fast enough that it should start? Does it sound even when cranking over? have you checked the obvious like engine oil level, and coolant before you removed the radiator? No problem starting it with no coolant, just remove the belt so the water pump isn't turning, and shut it off as soon as it runs smooth, or less than a minute, NO LOAD.

Obviously you didn't get fuel out of the overflow/return. Did Dirty Jim open the lines to the injectors at the injector to see if there was fuel there? I would remove that return fitting so you can see into the top of the pump, and crank and prime until you get fuel running out. then loosen the injector lines at the injectors, and crank until you get spurts of fuel with no air bubbles, then tighten and it should start. If it's been sitting a while, I would use fresh fuel, #1 if you can find it. If you can't get fuel out of the return/overflow fitting, then take the side window off the pump and see if it's turning with the engine, two small screws holding a small metal plate on the side of the injection pump.

 

[IpswichCASE]

inline injection pumps, you'd know them when you see them

Duh.... inline like an inline-6 car engine. I have seen these inline injection pumps. I understand now.

The engine cranks over and has compression. Dirty Jim did crack some lines open and we managed to get her to fire with some ether. She just wouldn't run on her own. We suspected she wasn't getting any fuel. I have printed what you suggest and will go down the list to see if we are getting fuel.

Thanks

 

[Delmer]

The engine will run, drive and load with ether only, with the injection lines completely removed. Be careful of excessive ether use on a diesel. Use the starter, but not more than 20 seconds at a time, and plenty of time to cool off between, and a battery charger hooked up to keep the battery up. Only use ether once you've got some smoke from the exhaust, indicating fuel being injected into the cylinders, obviously you'll have fuel to the return fitting, and out the injector lines before you bother to check the exhaust for fuel mist.

 

[thepumpguysc]

More than likely, if u bought a non-runner., the inj. pump is gummed up..
U can try to take off the top cover off the inj.pump 3 screws but b forewarned, they tend the break..
If u make it in successfully, the metering valve is probably stuck..
Do some light searching for “Stanadyne metering valve” so u can get a mental pic of what ur looking for.. The mv MUST rotate freely.. if u pull it open, it should spring back closed..
Be SURE to get that shut off in the run position.!!
Once u get the mv loose, put the cover on & try to start it..
If it’s pumping fuel up to the injectors, that’s great..
If not.. it means the pumping plungers are stuck and the pump
HAS TO come off for repair..
The plunger are deep inside the pump..& there are special tools needed to gain access..

 

[IpswichCASE]

Hey Pump Guy... thanks! When I purchased the skid it was sitting for a while but the previous owner thought for sure it would start. I'll try your suggestion.

 

[IpswichCASE]

@pumpguy, here is a pic of my pump. The arrows are pointing where the metering valve is, correct? Just stick my fingers in there and make sure things move around without disassembling any?

akso, lever A is the fuel/throttle and B is the fuel shutoff, correct?
I’m heading there first thing tomorrow

 

[IpswichCASE]

Ok.... looking at the picture with the A and B, moving B moves the metering valve freely. Moving A does not move it.

the picture below shows the timing mark (?) behind the little cover. When I cranked the engine it did not move. Sooo, must I pull the pump or is there something else I can try first?

 

[Delmer]

There's two marks, and they line up at TDC, one mark is stationary, and one mark moves. If you're sure neither part is moving when you crank the engine, then it's time to pull the pump, but clean it up first. And probably set it to TDC by the valves?

 

[IpswichCASE]

Oh.... hmm. Well, I didn’t know one
was stationary. I’ll have to go look again.
Can you tell me Delmer, looking at my pump, the lever that moves the MV, B in the picture, is that the fuel shutoff?
My goal is to try EVERYTHING before I pull the pump. thanks

 

[Delmer]

if nothing moves inside that window when the engine turns, then nothing else matters. Remember, it's a four stroke engine and the pump shaft will turn at camshaft speed, which is half crankshaft speed. The internet will identify the parts better than I can. "roosa master DB injection pump" "fuel shutoff" or whatever will find plenty of pics.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Yes “B” is the shut off.. it moves the metering valve from run to shut off..
“A” won’t move the mv.. it only holds pressure on it..
Yes, there are 2 lines behind the window.. 1 that rotates and 1 that’s stationary..
It’s BEST to time the pump/engine before pump removal.. just rotate the engine BY HAND until the 2 lines meet then STOP..
Now u can take off all the lines and linkages and the 2 or 3 nuts holding the pump to the block..
The drive shaft will stay in the engine.. u pull the pump off the shaft, so make sure you have enough room behind the pump to pull it back..(filter head removal?)
Good luck with the removal and I’d love to get my hands on it for a rebuild..
Just remember, it costs more if u help.!!

 

[IpswichCASE]

So I have done everything. A friend even gave me a portable lift pump to add fuel pressure at the pump intake. I cracked the banjo bolts at the fuel lines at the pump.... no fuel. I must now pull the pump. Actually having the pump rebuilt will be peace of mind moving forward since this old girl is new to me.

Brings up a question, there isn’t a Fuel pump between the fuel tank and the fuel filters or anywhere in between the pump and the fuel tank. Is that ok? Or is it advised to add one.... a lift pump. I’m being told there needs to be one.