Where is the quality?

[cuttin edge]

The company had been the market for a new loader. Most of the fleet are Volvo with the exception of 4 Cats. The last good Cat loader we had was a 966F. The others just don't seem to measure up. With the exception of the new 980M they got last year all 4, and I'm including the 980 that the M replaced, had the cat man under the hood within the first hundred hours. The 972 wouldn't even drive off the float when it first came. Great pricing, and financing has led them to buy a new 950 to replace our 950G. It was dropped off at the shop last week walked the 7 miles or so to the Walmart where it will plow all winter, pushed one bladefull of snow went into a derate mode, shut down and that was all she wrote. The Cat man has been at it for 2 days. It has got to be disheartening to shell out that much money for something, and not even get 8 hours out of it.

 

[rondig]

Yeah...most problems are with the darn emissions....everything else seems to still work ok on our equipment....but darn emissions lol

 

[kshansen]

As much as I'm for helping the environment if I had a need for a machine that I could depend on I would go for a 966C over a 966K or what ever the newest version is these days.

Those old 966C's only needed wiring enough to get engine turning over and once running you could know they would run till they ran out of fuel!

Have to wonder how much pollution is created during the manufacture of all those extra controls and such on the new equipment. Not to mention the amount of fuel burned by the service trucks running back and forth to the work sites and sitting there running all day while someone runs test after test trying to figure out where that little sensor is and why the plug on the wire came loose!

 

[rondig]

As much as I'm for helping the environment if I had a need for a machine that I could depend on I would go for a 966C over a 966K or what ever the newest version is these days.

Those old 966C's only needed wiring enough to get engine turning over and once running you could know they would run till they ran out of fuel!

Have to wonder how much pollution is created during the manufacture of all those extra controls and such on the new equipment. Not to mention the amount of fuel burned by the service trucks running back and forth to the work sites and sitting there running all day while someone runs test after test trying to figure out where that little sensor is and why the plug on the wire came loose!

Or the service trucks getting serviced by service trucks with emission problems...lol

 

[funwithfuel]

Place I work for constantly has 1 truck in the shop , at least. Emissions, transmission, EGR and the list goes on.
At least phase 5 has been postponed

 

[cuttin edge]

Isn't emissions the reason Cat gave up on their truck engines. Our D4 never missed a beat

 

[funwithfuel]

It totally is, they got tired of paying annual fines. C15 Acert was their last entry to bigbore highway I believe.

 

[grandpa]

Kshansen.... the 966C... the toughest machine built.... ever!!!!!

 

[kshansen]

Kshansen.... the 966C... the toughest machine built.... ever!!!!!

Yes, out of all the machine I worked on in about 45 years at the quarry that is about the only machine I would want to have sitting in my yard. Especially the "pre" ROPS versions. Some of the ROPS brackets made removing pumps a major pain!

And what's not to like about a wiring diagram that would fit on a 3X5 index card! Not to mention the simple straight air brakes!

 

[petepilot]

The company had been the market for a new loader. Most of the fleet are Volvo with the exception of 4 Cats. The last good Cat loader we had was a 966F. The others just don't seem to measure up. With the exception of the new 980M they got last year all 4, and I'm including the 980 that the M replaced, had the cat man under the hood within the first hundred hours. The 972 wouldn't even drive off the float when it first came. Great pricing, and financing has led them to buy a new 950 to replace our 950G. It was dropped off at the shop last week walked the 7 miles or so to the Walmart where it will plow all winter, pushed one bladefull of snow went into a derate mode, shut down and that was all she wrote. The Cat man has been at it for 2 days. It has got to be disheartening to shell out that much money for something, and not even get 8 hours out of it.

i`d be callin cat sayin send you`re lowboy then read them the address where it is

 

[John C.]

I've had heard some things from the Cat dealer people I know that might address some of the issues showing up all the time now with new machines. It used to be that when a new machine got to the dealer, the manufacturer would pay the dealer to go through a big check list of items to make sure the machine was ready to go. That would include a hot test where the machine was warmed up and operation was tested before it ever got to the customer. Four or five years ago Cat quit paying for that and now says they do it at the factory and all it good on the earth and they are not going to pay for anything but a quick check of fluids before the machine leaves for the customer.

Now your brand new wheel loader might have sat on a factory lot for some time then got put on a ship heading to this country and then sat in a port yard until moving was arranged to a customs site. Then it waited again for all that paper work to be done and was moved to a storage and marshaling yard waiting to go to a dealer somewhere. Finally it got put on a truck or rail car and was shipped to the dealer lot where it might sit again for some months waiting for a customer to purchase it and move it out to their work site. So now what is known in the business as yard rot has set in. Moisture has gotten into the fuel, wiring connections and various sensors and components and you have all kinds of problems. The dealer looks bad because usually few if any mechanics have any experience with the new machines and the factory people are just brain dead about how things are supposed to work. Add to that the dealer wrenches are supposed to deal through a product support person for fixes and they are not allowed to fix the machine using their own brains. You end up with the messes being described here. But according to the sales folks, "we are saving the planet"!

 

[cuttin edge]

So after thousands in parts, and another break down in a storm, the new kitty cat seems to be ok. One thing I will say is that our Cat service man is pretty great. The dealer is about an hour and a half away, but he lives here local. Last time he came out at 4 in the morning during a storm to find the problem. Said if she goes down again to call him any time.

 

[heymccall]

Had Volvos, have Cats, Deeres, and Komatsus.

Will never own another Volvo.
Will never own another Deere.
Given a choice between Cat & Komatsu, the scales tip slightly toward Komatsu.

7 transmissions between two 11k hour each L70E loaders was enough for me. The problem is intrinsic.

Deere was my go to until my 544J loaders, and the 5.5 months without my 1200 544K sealed their fate. I'm still using 20k hour 544GTCs every day, too.

 

[cuttin edge]

We started in on the F series Volvo loaders. Pretty much trouble free. Had a lot of problems with the g series but the h is good so far..

 

[kshansen]

Only had to deal with one Komatsu, WA600 New in Oct of 1996, last I touched it was Oct of 2014 when it had 24,851 hours on it. Hours may sound low but this was the pit loader for a quarry that the production season usually only went from April to middle of Nov. and only single shift. And then the end of 2005 we got a 988H to take over as main pit loader, so it got it's working hours reduced a bit more but was used several times a week.

When I retired it still had never had any major components rebuilt. Closest thing was when it broke a valve spring in the K19 Cummins engine. At that time I pulled all the heads and had them rebuilt with new valves and springs along with I believe it was the second set of injectors.

Wheel brakes axles and transmission all as shipped from factory, believe I heard this summer they had some transmission trouble that was just some small piece from a strainer that got caught in a valve body. Did have some pump problems along with hyd. cylinder problems.

The only real problems I have with Komatsu is that at least for this machine the service manual is far below Cat quality and the parts book and parts availability are also lacking.

 

[komatsukid]

Manufacturers are cramming a lot of technology down the throats of mechanics.

 

[Zsolt Karacsonyi]

New machines, new promlems! Because of the emission regulations.
Nowdays everything is conrolled by an electornic. And if there is a software bug (like there was in the Volvo G series) or a hardwere failure then the machine not working. And it's hard to repair.

 

[John C.]

I'm waiting for the day where the machine tells you what is wrong with it and then orders the parts. With telematics that day is coming sooner rather than later. When it happens is when you get called into the office for a sudden career event.

 

[Zsolt Karacsonyi]

In Europe the Schwartzmuller semitrailer manufacturer has tire pressure and brake disc monitoring system connected to the telematic system. The brake disk monitoring not very usable. It gives wrong values.

 

[cuttin edge]

New machines, new promlems! Because of the emission regulations.
Nowdays everything is conrolled by an electornic. And if there is a software bug (like there was in the Volvo G series) or a hardwere failure then the machine not working. And it's hard to repair.

I tend to think that a certain amount of difficulty is what the manufacturer aims for. It has become cheaper for us to bring technicians in to work on the machines. Our own guys service and do simple tasks. The Volvo or cat guys already have the specialized tools and experience. If it's not something pressing, sometimes they come once there is at least a days worth of repairs, and bring the suspected parts with them. I actually have the guy's number that looks after our Volvo stuff. I messaged him in the fall about the ride control not working on the L70F that I plow with in winter. He put it on the list an it was fixed by the first storm.