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What else? 977L head gasket replacement

oarwhat

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
846
Location
buffalo,n.y.
Again clean the oil cooler and the radiator. I the transmission cooler and hydraulic cooler are usually air cooled . So they have no effect on overheating unless they are blocking the radiator air flow.
 

Cat977

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2006
Messages
506
Location
Madison WI
Occupation
Machinist/Millwright
Thanks!! Nick and oarwhat
Seems new technology has been added to old school experience!!! You've stayed busy! Never heard of sneak a peek hooking up to a big screen that they don't own and want to sell to you. "Proprietary" lol!!!. I guess these worms can be directed to turn corners too. The frackers do it.... My head is spinning, I thought it was from the skidder.....
Transmission and hydraulic coolers ya just clean the fins duh.... Mental note Shawn relaxe, don't fix it if it ain't broke....
Cheers
Shawn
 

Delmer

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
8,922
Location
WI
The temperature gun will tell you where the heat is getting and not getting. If the radiator is working correctly, I think there's supposed to be 20F difference between top and bottom temps, when it's fully hot, that is the thermostat is open all the way, near overheating. The problem with that measurement is if the radiator is plugged inside just as much as outside, it will show the same temp drop, but not be moving much water, or air.

For temps you're working in now, it doesn't need top performance out of the radiator, it needs a little less than fully plugged! So blowing it out with compressed air on the outside, to get the mud and sticks out. Backflush the radiator with both hoses and cap removed, a garden hose running in the top, an air gun and a rag stuffed in the bottom, let it overflow then blast a shot of air, repeat until you don't get any more sediment. Miserable job in this weather, and not as good as rodding every tube out, but you don't have to take it out. I couldn't say if there's a way to backflush the oil cooler in place or if that has to come apart.

The biggest question is if you have a combustion leak that's causing the loss of coolant, and then overheating. Or if you just have a plugged up cooling system, that's overheating, and then losing coolant. If you stop before it gets hot enough to lose coolant, does it need more or not?
 

Cat977

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2006
Messages
506
Location
Madison WI
Occupation
Machinist/Millwright
Delmer, you have an excellent course of action that doesn't cost any money. Nige, I love the way you dig up the spec's! I'm exhausted... they're picking up the skidder. Shucks.... Foot Doc tomorrow. Top and bottom split, good check on efficiency! Take off the grill and clean the fins. Temp gun should work in sections from the front. The engine oil cooler should show a good in and out temp split too. You guys are giving me some Great Clues!! Now for some dinner. That bed is already looking Good! I haven't worked this hard since I retired!!!
Cheers
Shawn
 

ChrisUK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Messages
133
Location
England
Delmer, you have an excellent course of action that doesn't cost any money. Nige, I love the way you dig up the spec's! I'm exhausted... they're picking up the skidder. Shucks.... Foot Doc tomorrow. Top and bottom split, good check on efficiency! Take off the grill and clean the fins. Temp gun should work in sections from the front. The engine oil cooler should show a good in and out temp split too. You guys are giving me some Great Clues!! Now for some dinner. That bed is already looking Good! I haven't worked this hard since I retired!!!
Cheers
Shawn
Make sure to take pics Shawn, for the benefit of us all in the future !
Cheers and good luck Chris
 

Cat977

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2006
Messages
506
Location
Madison WI
Occupation
Machinist/Millwright
Picture records are soooo.... good to have in the record. So well said Chris! "A picture is worth a thousand words". Now we are down to the operator. I seem to be lacking in the operation of Google photos, they're in my phone, in the cloud, now if I could well...

We have a nice coating of wet snow. In pic on the Cat. A real nice Timber Jack skidder with the Cat. Tracks that say don't put new segments on a Cat with old rails. Tech is busy, I'm busy with a grapple on that 1998 Gehl next to the tracks, now with a grapple on. There are some real warm temps coming and I'm not sure what comes next could be the Cat. Then again fishing with the utility truck 4x4 has some merit. It just keeps changing with new ideas or new help. I have some big dead Red Elms I would love to pull out in one piece to send to the top of the hill (could sit up there 50 years and still be good I think). Good job for a 977L with tall tracks on half frozen ground. It's been going good! Steady progress. I sure dream of the days when I was younger... and hit sun down and say what's next!
Cheers to all the Great Help!!
Shawn

If you post the links in a Google browser they should work....
https://photos.app.goo.gl/J8cBiBMYqMvYrtQy8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/7mbGVr18GtzvHisg6
https://photos.app.goo.gl/W2EWt8MVW6zn5TkS8
 
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tctractors

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
2,426
Location
Worc U.K.
The engine oil is cooled by water, this water feeds into a transmission oil cooler that then lets the water enter the cylinder block, the coolers peg up with crap constantly on older equipment, it's not hard or costly to strip and rod out the water tubes. tctractors
 

Cat977

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Feb 19, 2006
Messages
506
Location
Madison WI
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Machinist/Millwright
tctractors Thanks for pointing out what you've picked up on the job!

The time of well frozen ground may be done except for the north sloping area. So Tall tracks 977L’s best time will be next winter. I think 6”x1”tallx½” cleats on the front of triple grousers maybe a good enough ice biter for around here. My tall ones will come in handy for that pull up the hill! I've found the Tall studded 4wd 65hp construction tractor to be working well in shallow snow, ice and mud. Working the burn pile with beafy forks (3500 lb rated machine) with a 55 gallon drum of rocks and cement on the 3pt is a good setup. The skid steer with grapple did well when the footing was good for the metal tracks. Its been real nice for picking and stacking small stuff. There are 2 separate burn piles and the easy/close stuff is done and burned. On the biggest pile set in the woods the logger jumped in the skidder for the first time since he dropped it off and toured the place with me. I rode along (advised for learning) it was like a rodeo roundup! He tucked big long stuff in here and there but mostly he went around the pile in circles and would dip in smashing brush and breaking off long sections shifting the pile around, condensing it while causing it to rise in height and herding it to our new location. Got to love machines that are big enough to be a bully and nimble enough to get things done quick. He said they don’t make them this small anymore. Bare frozen ground and clean brush did make it an easier job. Articulating machines makes going in circles a piece of cake.

The other pile was an old brush pile that I dragged tops onto with large ends pretty much on the same side. I strapped a pallet to the forks for an elevated stand to pour accelerant onto the densest part of the pile. Burn out the center and twist and break the pieces starting at the large ends. Ramming into the center to bust it up helped also.

Well just checking back….. Could be awhile till I get back on the 977L. I’ll be sure to post some good pictures posted for "Chris" and the other 977 fans!
Best of luck to all the HEF Fans!!
Shawn
 
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Cat977

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Feb 19, 2006
Messages
506
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Madison WI
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Machinist/Millwright
Finally got back to it. Tec showed how once heated up, throttling up would push the radiator to overflowing, throttle down and it's OK. His opinion "we need to rod out the radiator, it's too plugged to do the job". The oil and trans. coolers will also be cleaned out. I see cores are $2500 and think pulling the radiator and doing a thorough job maybe in order. We both have lifts and share work splitage as friends. Thankfully his opinion is not a head gasket. I wonder once the core is separated is the use of chemicals like muriatic acid a good idea?
Spring is on the Rise!
Cheers
 

sawmilleng

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Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
225
Location
Central Kootenays, Canada
I have used muriatic acid to clean copper heat exchange tubes for a swimming pool heater. The setup was more of a pain in the butt than actually doing the job.

You will still need to rod the tubes out to make sure that each one can pass liquid through before starting the acid treatment.

The acid should be warmed to improve its effectiveness and the process watched carefully to ensure you don't go too far. You may find out that you have thin spots in the rad tubes and generate some leaks if the rad is getting "worn out". But better to find them now than out in the field doing something!

The other thing is how to get the acid to flow thru each tube so you know each is clean. A little pump that can handle acid comes to mind...more fiddling around to find something.

And finally, how to properly dispose of the acid...I think you neutralize it by adding a bunch of baking soda to it until the reaction quits bubbling and foaming.

An internet search is your friend here.

It may be better to take the cores you want cleaned (rad, oil cooler?) to a rad shop for the chemical cleaning to take advantage of their experience and setups. If they find some leaks you can decide if you want to fix them yourself or have the shop do it.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Jon.
 

Cat977

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Joined
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Messages
506
Location
Madison WI
Occupation
Machinist/Millwright
I called a radiator shop near me and they want the radiator in one piece. So its they look and they deside which is best. They are indeed in the business. Flushing in place is looking like a better idea, but I want to do it, and forget it. Then again if they say new core after trying we get $$. They were not interested in the serial # for a bid on recoring, said it means nothing to them. They want it in shop and will measure it for a recore. Maybe I look, clean, and test, and buy a core on my own if needed. To me paying more and not hasseling with it is good. Going to the cleaners is not so much.
 

Delmer

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If you want to try to flush it yourself, remove the cap and both hoses, stick a running garden hose in the top, stick a rag and air blow gun in the bottom, once it overflows give it a little shot of air, repeat until you get no more sediment, giving bigger shots of air as you progress. Clean the oil cooler like TCT has said. Could run it with rainwater a few times for a few hours each, and repeat until there's no more sediment in the drained water. You don't need good circulation, barely any circulation at all will be plenty if you're operating this thing only in winter.
 

oarwhat

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
846
Location
buffalo,n.y.
If you want to try to flush it yourself, remove the cap and both hoses, stick a running garden hose in the top, stick a rag and air blow gun in the bottom, once it overflows give it a little shot of air, repeat until you get no more sediment, giving bigger shots of air as you progress. Clean the oil cooler like TCT has said. Could run it with rainwater a few times for a few hours each, and repeat until there's no more sediment in the drained water. You don't need good circulation, barely any circulation at all will be plenty if you're operating this thing only in winter.
We had this same issue on a loader only used for snow. Tried backflushing, chemicals etc. with no luck. Our bush fix was cut a hole in the top of the radiator and rod it out. Then make a cover and tap the radiator for bolts to hold it in place. It had to be cleaned on three separate occasions until it wouldn't overheat. We used an electricians wire fish for rodding. I think we doubled up the fish for better cleaning. We also stuck a big magnet in there to catch the rust.
 
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