What else? 977L head gasket replacement

[Cat977]

Finally got back to 977 switching tracks from my older 977K to the 977L. Seems I have an exhaust leak into the coolant. (I don't see any coolant in the oil). There are small bubbles coming up at idle. I let it run for 20-30 min. at a fastish idle and the temperature ran up to too hot. Worse yet it’s pushing oil out the exhaust manifold connection to the stack!! Left it overnight and added 2 cups of coolant. Idled for 5 min. then tried to push hard with it. Took about 5 min. and it's pushing coolant out of a loose cap and it's too hot! I'm looking for confirmation on it being a head gasket and I'm wondering if the oil is coming from the turbine bearing? The turbine spools right up and the engine is strong. The machine has been sitting for 5-6 years. I wore the tracks till they were running on the pins. I used to run it back and forth a couple times a year till I snitched the batteries 2 years ago.

I was referred to a local service man with a track press. That was a relief… I feel that the machine is solid and worth additional investment.

The loggers just finished taking 40 walnut trees and I would like to use the 4 in 1 bucket for cleaning up! They’re leaving the skidder for me for a bit, but I should figure out what to test before tearing into this project. Then there is getting the parts ordered from Off Road before the frosty ground is gone!!

Serial #11K05251 I’ll get the engine serial # tomorrow I think it’s on the left side in the back.

I am tempted to try K&W Nanotechnology Permanent Head Gasket & Block Repair.

I would like to use this machine ASAP but stuff like this can… maybe weld shut partly plugged old expensive radiators and not fix the problem.

Any suggestions on tests or things to service while digging deeper are most welcome!

 

[Welder Dave]

If the machine was only worth scrap you might try a sealer (to move it a short a distance) but if it runs good fix it right especially considering the work you've already done on it. Hopefully you caught the problem early enough there's no other problems.

 

[Cat977]

Having the 3rd valve makes it worth more, but there maybe other issues. I should of taken oil samples before I switched the tracks. It ran fine when I parked it and all works well now otherwise. Then again I can't say.... I haven't put it to real work after getting the moth balls out. Does anyone know about how many hours a professional would need to do the job?

 

[fest777]

cat977, i had the same problem with my 955 3304,it would push coolant out the large cap after about 15 min running, let it set for 5 min and it would cool down, turns out the rad core was plugged up, and the pc chambers were chewed up , i had the bubbles also thats where the pc chambers were shot ,corroded ,how many hours to do what ? fest

 

[361brock]

If indeed the bubbles are from coolant entering combustion chamber, watch out for hydrostatic lock. You'll bend a rod before you know what happened, if you encounter any resistance when cranking, STOP! Good luck

 

[361brock]

With 2 guys and overhead hoist I removed hood, turbo,injector lines, a few sensor wires, valve cover, rockers, push rods,& head. 4 hrs. The tricky part comes when you inspect the head and liner projection. If you were just interested in reinstalling everything with just a new head gasket, then it could be done in 1 10 hr day, drain and refill oil and top off coolant.

 

[Cat977]

Brock
Thanks for giving me a time estimate. You had 2 977K's I believe. Did your dad buy them?
Fest
You must be talking about precombustion chambers? I don't really know anything about them do they get cooled by the antifreeze? Is there any easy way to find out if the radiator is plugged? I haven't looked but can you remove the top tank with the radiator still installed? This is a 3306 motor but I didn't get to the serial # yet to make sure.

I have a local tech that should be showing up soon to help figure this out. Time is of the essence, one slope started melting today!

 

[tctractors]

You would be well advised to strip the oil coolers down totally and clean out the water passages. tctractors.

 

[Cat977]

Thanks Tc!
On the right hand side there is a round cooler I believe is the engine oil cooler. Are you thinking I should add the trans and hydrolic oil cooler also? I believe they are in front of the radiator.

Seems take your time and dot the I's and cross the T's. maybe in order.

 

[oarwhat]

I'll second the oil cooler. Ours was plugged and kept taking out the pre cup orings. TC is the one who told me about it. After cleaning the oil cooler it then plugged the radiator just like he said it would. Pre cup orings leak to the outside of the engine though.

 

[361brock]

Hi Shawn
The radiator top tank is removable, you can look into top where cap is and get an idea of what the tubes look like. I usually use a temp gun on rad to check for big temp differences. Yes my dad had many 977Hs & Ks. I bought a few myself after he retired in 1980. You might want to verify the water pump is up to snuff after the thermostat has opened the flow at half throttle should be obvious at the cap.
The heat gun is your friend, check anywhere water flow can be shot with the gun. Like others have said those coolers can't be overlooked. Look for easy stuff first.
Nick

 

[Cat977]

Thanks Nick!
I think checking all the easyer stuff before I disable the engine would be wise. Figuring out what all a person would want to do and what parts to have on hand helps things go smoothly when a helper is on hand. You added some good tips! I use a temp gun but never thought about using it to trace functions...??? The voice of experience. At least I checked the sprocket for movement before switching tracks! In my hurry I didn't do much more. "Haste makes Waste" just too often. I had gotten the other 977K fluffed up and gave it a shot to get the 977L up and going with the added grouser stock on the front of triple grouser pads (tall tracks). Now with ice scattered around here it would be the champ! 2nd day on the skidder and I'm beat!
Cheers
Shawn

 

[fest777]

977, yes the pc chambers are surrounded by coolant they get very hot, i mean real hot because thats where the combustion takes place, they can get pin holes, and corrode letting combustion into cooling system . its about 4 to 6 hrs to pull radiator , take hood off and go straight up with radiator, i guess you could just pull top tank and hook a water hose too bottom outlet and seal it off run water then rod it out with a long oil dip stick from top , when i did my 955 there was about 3 pounds of scale and rust in top tank, its hard to see the core from top because there is a baffle just under the large round cap but you can a little under the small cap pretty sure the 977 is the same way, fest

 

[Cat977]

Thanks fest!
Just got off the skidder, this logger is doing me a BBBBig... favor! I'm not a motor man much less a diesel guy but is there compression tests for diesels? Should I replace pc cups even if they don't leak or is it best to leave well enough alone? Could open a can of worms, but doing it on the bench has to be easier. There’s a little river starting on the trail.... If I can get the Tech to come over he may do a lot by himself. If If If...
Cheers
Shawn

 

[fest777]

replacing the cup is not a hard job, yes there are compression testers check ebay, there not that much, the only way too check the cups is too pull them, you need a special tool its only 20 bucks cat 5f8353, i really can't advise you on pulling them , pulling the head and that not being the problem is costly , cleaning the radiator is number 1 i think, then if your still getting bubbles check the cups there real easy to do about 3 hours max, if they are ok put new o rings and seats you wont be out much and the problem is else where, sunk liners is a major problem meaning dropping pan pulling pistons and liners and if lucky just shims if not" portable machine work", and it is high just doing the cups i think will not open a can of worms, pulling the head who knows where that can lead, after market cups are about 30 bucks a pop if you buy a kit its a lot less, 6 cups orings and seats,if you go after market try to get the ones made in italy, oem are about 80 bucks each, i went after market and every thing went fine, but some other members here wont touch them with a 10 foot pole, its almost like a crap shoot with after market, clean that radiator and see how it does. fest

 

[Nige]

Do you have a Parts Manual for it yet.?
If not you really need one for all the odd gaskets, seals, and o-rings that you'll need to replace whether you go into the radiator, coolers, or pre-combustion chambers.
This is the one you need.

 

[Cat977]

Thanks to both of you!!!
Got off the skidder for the night! All the manuals are in hand Nige! Boy if the answer is not the head I would be overjoyed!!! I'm thinking the Tech has a boom so the hood and nose comes off easily. We can do some testing (before that the Nick temp gun tests by me!). Then I can clean all the coolers. I was thinking of using muriatic acid if it is still available. How would you know if the old cups are good? Time for a good dinner and some sleep.
Cheers
Shawn

 

[Nige]

A service manual obviously has a lot more information in respect of disassembly & assembly but it's amazing what you can interpret from a Parts Manual drawing if you have half a brain.
Honestly if you have no definite confirmation that's where the problem is then I wouldn't consider suggesting to pull the head off before having a go at everything else that has been mentioned up to this point like radiator, coolers, pre-cups, etc.

 

[361brock]

If you could lay your hands on a borescope and look inside the combustion chambers, could see if cylinder walls are washed clean from water entering the chamber. I have one that hooks up to Ipad, nice big sceen.

Nick

 

[361brock]

If your head isn't spinning enough yet, there is a combustion leak tester that can determine weather the bubbles your seeing are caused by, you guessed it, combustion! It's a fluid that is placed in a glass tube kinda like a hydrometer testing battery specific gravity. The fluid changes color in the presence of gas, I think green.

Nick