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what causes a starter to shatter?

Discussion in 'Forklifts/Telehandlers' started by skata, Apr 9, 2019.

  1. skata

    skata Senior Member

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    a jcb forklift with a perkins 1004 engine. went to crank it up, and heard an explosion! it did not sound good. fortunately i was able to get all the pieces out of the bellhousing. this is the second time this has happened. last time was about 10 years ago. why does this happen?

    0408191827.jpg 0408191827a.jpg
     
  2. hvy 1ton

    hvy 1ton Senior Member

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    The kickout? is out of adjustment and the pinion gear was slamming into the nose cone.
     
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  3. skata

    skata Senior Member

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    shouldnt that have been good when i bought it new?
     
  4. Vetech63

    Vetech63 Senior Member

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    Make sure it is the right starter for that engine application .
     
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  5. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    Start looking for something else broken allowing that to get side loaded, bell, flywheel bolting, ring gear shifted or someone failed to get fully on, something in there NOT right. Looks to be a Lucas?
     
  6. skata

    skata Senior Member

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    This starter has probably been cycled a thousand times at least. Hard to imagine something not lined up.
    I'm not sure who the oem maker is. But i think this starter is widely used among other brands.
     
  7. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    Does not change my first instinct. Starters do not just break apart randomly. If is a Lucas(Perkins was as was Allis a defined User) there should be a Delco replacement available, that will have a Cast Iron/steel nose instead of aluminum.
     
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  8. hvy 1ton

    hvy 1ton Senior Member

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    It should have been, but it sure looks like the the pinion and nose cone have been making contact. Like Dmiller said, those nose cones don't shatter for no reason.
     
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  9. TD24

    TD24 Well-Known Member

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    Last rebuilder put wrong pinion on it. Used to happen often on Delco's in Clark forklifts.
     
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  10. RZucker

    RZucker Senior Member

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    Looks Lucas or Prestolite to me... Lucas the prince of darkness. :D Used to deal with them on Ford tractors. Hated them. Even the Nippondensos on John Deere tractors were more reliable.
     
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  11. hosspuller

    hosspuller Senior Member

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    Picture allows high magnification. Looks like the pinion gear teeth are worn unevenly. (natural for a starter) I surmise the wear allows the pinion to climb on the teeth of the flywheel forcing the nosecone apart, Instead of engaging the flywheel teeth. Check if the pinion shaft is bent or loose. Would not take much movement to break the cast nose. Wear would explain the time between failures.
     
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  12. rondig

    rondig Senior Member

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    Mmmm i have seen this before...when my guys double start machine....or try starting when already running...
     
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  13. funwithfuel

    funwithfuel Senior Member

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    I'm not seeing the pinion wear mentioned. I wonder if the hydraulics loaded up, that should have just slowed cranking rpm. But if the casting were porous, well any weak link, will lead to failure.
     
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  14. hosspuller

    hosspuller Senior Member

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    Click on Skata's second picture. Even looks like a tooth is broken off. (at the very bottom of the pinion pic)
     
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  15. Ronsii

    Ronsii Senior Member

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    Tooth is still there. it's just the angle of the pic makes it look like extra distance between the teeth along with the relief cut.

    Most of the time I see the nose cones busted off was from machines that had the starter repeatedly engaged with the motor running.
     
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  16. funwithfuel

    funwithfuel Senior Member

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    Just peeked again, I only see machined lead in cuts. But I'm old and eyes are shot.
     
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  17. skata

    skata Senior Member

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    the gear teeth ends are machined like that. no wear. also, the ignition key doesnt allow you to re-engage the starter unless you turn the key to off.
     
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  18. hvy 1ton

    hvy 1ton Senior Member

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    Maybe I'm crazy, but that looks like contact to me.
    upload_2019-4-11_19-45-48.png
    This looks like a burr developing on the shoulder and there is shiny metal at the toe.
    upload_2019-4-11_19-47-37.png
     
  19. TD24

    TD24 Well-Known Member

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    Agree with Skata... Brings up a thought.
    Many machines are OEM wired so ign key will not fire the starter if engine is running and there is charging system output.
    This function is dependent on the ign switch being OEM or equivalent and properly wired.
    My question? Has the ign switch been replaced with an non compatible aftermarket?
     
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  20. Ronsii

    Ronsii Senior Member

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    My hyster forklift also has a mechanical interlock that will only one turn to crank without going all the way back to off to reset it.
     
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