West Coast Logging Camps, Shops, Barges, etc.

[Oxbow]

Thanks again tugman for your time and effort to share these stories and pictures, when I have more time I will re-read everything and absorb more thoroughly what you have shared with us!

Dave

 

[tugman]

I think that some where a ways back I mentioned how the old "flatdeck" barges, (they had no cranes and were loaded from a spar & boom mounted on the beach at different locations.) They would dry out on their trip from where they were loaded to where they were dumped in hot weather in the summer. This is the Rivtow Straits tug "Gibraltar Straits" dumping tandem tow, (two barges) at my booming ground in '74 or '75. Niether of them would dump, so the fellow who was hired to do this shows up and sets a few sticks of 75% stick dynamite on the high side, and gives them a little help.

 

[mitch504]

Hey Tugman,
I have enjoyed your contributions too. I also work on a tug here on the east coast, building artificial reefs. Richards Marine Service owns the tug and barge, and I supply the trucks and heavy equipment. We sink surplus concrete, purpose built concrete cones, and scrap vessels. I started out just supplying the trucking, then the equipment and operating it myself as I didn't want to send it out in the ocean w/ an employee, and have become a member of the tug crew, (think press gang) going out even when no equipment is needed. We only average about one trip a month, because the captain/owner is retired almost. He is only 83.

The T/V Susan Richards, built in 1909 as a steam tug, repowered in the '40's w/ a 1900hp EMD:

We pull an 84'x30'x5' deck barge.


Here are a couple of threads:

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?18906-580-sK-in-the-Atlantic-Ocean

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?19315-Wet-Demoliton&highlight=

I like seeing the different ways things are done in different places. BTW, does your tug have 2 450hp mitzys, or is it a single screw boat? I would think it would be a lot of waiting out those bad currents out there w/ only 450hp.

Thanks for the tug history shots,
Mitch

 

[Vigilant]

I have heard that most tug engines run at considerably lower RPMs than truck engines, and that makes me wonder even more if these EMD tug engines I hear of now and then are the same as those used in locomotives?

 

[Vigilant]

Vigilant. As you mentioned your interest in these barges, I scanned these pictures from my old album. I'm not good with the computer to get the optimum from these old pictures, so I hope they show up well enough. This is from 1975 dumping a load at my booming ground. Dolphin Log Booming Ltd. - Howe Sound BC.

The barge is self propelled, self loading & dumping. The Haida Monarch. They built two of these barges, 37 or 38 years ago. They have since been de-commisioned, and I believe one has been scrapped, the other modified for different use.

Generally the time from opening tanks for flooding, until the time of shedding logs was about 45 minutes.View attachment 99271View attachment 99272View attachment 99273View attachment 99274

Thanks VERY much! I believe the Haida Monarch was one of those pictured in either the M&B thread or the Van Island Logging at its Best thread, on its last trip, to China for scrapping.

I thought I had really seen logging at its finest as a kid at Vail, but y'awl Kanucks had it going on, and still do. You truly do live in God's country.

 

[tugman]

Beautiful looking old ship Mitch. My ship is only single screw, but I have very little waiting time. I tow my barge an average 7 knots and even in a 30 knot Nor'West I still make about 5 so the Mitsi handles it pretty well. Always good to hear from the other side.... Norm

Hey Tugman,
I have enjoyed your contributions too. I also work on a tug here on the east coast, building artificial reefs. Richards Marine Service owns the tug and barge, and I supply the trucks and heavy equipment. We sink surplus concrete, purpose built concrete cones, and scrap vessels. I started out just supplying the trucking, then the equipment and operating it myself as I didn't want to send it out in the ocean w/ an employee, and have become a member of the tug crew, (think press gang) going out even when no equipment is needed. We only average about one trip a month, because the captain/owner is retired almost. He is only 83.

The T/V Susan Richards, built in 1909 as a steam tug, repowered in the '40's w/ a 1900hp EMD:View attachment 99289View attachment 99290

We pull an 84'x30'x5' deck barge.


Here are a couple of threads:

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?18906-580-sK-in-the-Atlantic-Ocean

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?19315-Wet-Demoliton&highlight=

I like seeing the different ways things are done in different places. BTW, does your tug have 2 450hp mitzys, or is it a single screw boat? I would think it would be a lot of waiting out those bad currents out there w/ only 450hp.

Thanks for the tug history shots,
Mitch

 

[stinkycat]

They used Cleveland Diesels, Fairbanks Morse, the Cleveland's changed its name to EMD The tugs I was around were powered byCleveland 8-278 12-278,and some direct reverseable Fairbanks Morse. The Cleveland's were diesel electric These were Navy YTB's and YTM's. The EMD locomotive engines are 645E and are V8 to V20 cylinders (645ci per cylinder )

 

[Vigilant]

They used Cleveland Diesels, Fairbanks Morse, the Cleveland's changed its name to EMD The tugs I was around were powered byCleveland 8-278 12-278,and some direct reverseable Fairbanks Morse. The Cleveland's were diesel electric These were Navy YTB's and YTM's. The EMD locomotive engines are 645E and are V8 to V20 cylinders (645ci per cylinder )

I had heard of 4-cycle Detroit 8-278s, 12-278s, etc. years ago, but not Cleveland. Did Detroit make these as well, or did I get some bad info?

Also, is this the same EMD that GM owned for so many years?

 

[tugman]

I forgot to add Vigilant, our engines do run at much lower RPM. However the difference is the reduction in our transmission. You can appreciate, in a truck application, you are up and down on the throttle, and you have your gears to work with. We are in gear, that's it. Then you bring your RPM usually to you "economy notch". Example, my Mitsubishi will turn 2000 rpm on the governor, but I run it at 1650. That is where I pull the best for the amount of fuel I am burning. You have probably looked at the power curve graph compared to fuel consumption. For me to give another 200 RPM, I might gain 1 knot, but burn about 30% more fuel. This also cuts my travel range for the fuel I carry down considerably.

Many years ago, I was on the "Island King" which I spoke of. The old Chief engineer, Bill Shields was educating me on fuel consumption. That ship has one of those V20 Jimmys in it. They are actually locomotive engines. When towing 24 hours a day on the governor, they burn a gallon per HP per day. I found it hard to believe him at the time, but it almost always works out. Now that big "John Ross" my uncle captained with the two engines in there they don't go by gallons per hour. Its tons of fuel per day.

If you keep yourself at a constant towing RPM, as most of us do, it is always best as I have said to keep some power in the bank. Which brings me to a story I get a real laugh out of. In 1970 when that "Island King" was built and was new. They tried to take the 4000HP out of that engine like in a locomotive, when they were actually supposed to only be taking 3600. Well we loaded the log barge in Quatsino Sound at the camp where I worked. (My job was to keep bringing the bags of logs alongside the barge with the small tug I ran). A friend of mine was captain on the King. When we were heaving anchors for them to leave, I hollered up at Joe the skipper, "You get right back here Joe, we're really plugged with wood". I'll be right back he says.

Well Joe don't showup. A few days later they finally get back. I say ok, what 'er you doing?..heavy date?. He says you'll never believe this. They are in Howe Sound, about 4 miles from where they dump. (In the above pictures I put up where the barges are having the loads blasted off, you can see the Port Mellon pulp mill. Well Joe is just coming by the Langdale ferry dock, and that old Chief engineer calls him from the engine room and says Joe, we just blew a liner (cylinder liner). I've got to shut 'er down. Joe says ok....shut 'er down Bill. Now Joe says to me, I'm doing close to 8 knots, so now I know just how long it takes to stop that barge. He's got 4 miles to go, and he is headed right for the deep sea dock where the freighters load pulp. He says, I was able to steer, cause the steering nozzle on that ship is powered by the auxilliary. The barge went by him, and he says I just kept letting a little tow line out and then kept snubbing it. Kind of like playing a big spring salmon. But he says, that barge would have wiped out that deep sea dock. One of the tugs a little smaller was just hooking up his chip barges to go back to Vancouver. He let his barges go and ran over and pushed the log barge around and got it tied up so all was well. The log barge has a load on it of 26,000 tons. Now we know, it takes more than 4 miles to stop it.

 

[Vigilant]

I'm no maritime expert, but I already know what Homer Simpson would have said:

D'OH!!!

 

[Dave Hadden]

Here's a few pics of some of the marine traffic that passes by where I live virtually every day.
From kayaks to cruise ships and everything in between. Sorry for the blurry ones but I'm not as steady as I used to be so telephoto via handheld lacks sometimes.

Take care.

 

[John C.]

As I recall, GM bought out Cleveland. I worked on the Fairbanks line for awhile and all those were two strokes. I have been around a 3-278 that was in a dive barge in Norfolk, Virginia and it was also a two stroke. I was told the Nimitz air craft carrier has 12V645 gensets for reactor fill and emergency power. I'm sure those were also two strokes. When I was in school for small boats they had an injector from a 645 on the bench next to one from a 71. Other than the markings on the rack, they looked the same except for the size. The US Navy had about every type and size of GM diesel as was ever produced used in something somewhere. I'm still impressed that the design worked from the small end of the power range all the way to the most powerful.

The other engine not mentioned is the GM 149 series. They were put in a bunch of big haul trucks that I was around for awhile. This particular series I was told was run in Mississippi River boats at 1,800 horsepower. The engines in the trucks were pulling 2,100 ponies and they really didn't like that.

I've worked on two Mitsu engines in the 400 plus horsepower range and was very impressed at the engineering. Both had the individual heads per cylinder and a real heavy crank to carry that power for a long time. They weren't easy to work on but they appeared to me to be made to run forever.

 

[tugman]

John you are absolutely right about the Mitsi. Individual cylinder & a huge Crank. Mine is still almost new, but I have friends who have them in other tugs and gotten 40,000 hours out of them. A V12-71, which is what I took out of my tug, your lucky to get 20,000..

As I recall, GM bought out Cleveland. I worked on the Fairbanks line for awhile and all those were two strokes. I have been around a 3-278 that was in a dive barge in Norfolk, Virginia and it was also a two stroke. I was told the Nimitz air craft carrier has 12V645 gensets for reactor fill and emergency power. I'm sure those were also two strokes. When I was in school for small boats they had an injector from a 645 on the bench next to one from a 71. Other than the markings on the rack, they looked the same except for the size. The US Navy had about every type and size of GM diesel as was ever produced used in something somewhere. I'm still impressed that the design worked from the small end of the power range all the way to the most powerful.

The other engine not mentioned is the GM 149 series. They were put in a bunch of big haul trucks that I was around for awhile. This particular series I was told was run in Mississippi River boats at 1,800 horsepower. The engines in the trucks were pulling 2,100 ponies and they really didn't like that.

I've worked on two Mitsu engines in the 400 plus horsepower range and was very impressed at the engineering. Both had the individual heads per cylinder and a real heavy crank to carry that power for a long time. They weren't easy to work on but they appeared to me to be made to run forever.

 

[tugman]

Dave. The very first picture is one of the tugs my brother in Campbell River skippers.

Here's a few pics of some of the marine traffic that passes by where I live virtually every day.
From kayaks to cruise ships and everything in between. Sorry for the blurry ones but I'm not as steady as I used to be so telephoto via handheld lacks sometimes.

Take care.

 

[stinkycat]

John C
I worked on Cleveland 3-268's 8-268's 8-278,12 & 16-278 Fairbanks Morse 10-38 1/8D. Cleveland who was bought by GM and became EMD I have worked on just about every series of Detroit Diesel except 61 series (after my time) the 149 had pot heads like the EMD's 567 and 645"s all were 2 cycle. Some of the larger tugs and fishing boats had ALCO mains my last 2 ships had 6 for main engines

 

[mitch504]

The engine in the Susan Richards is a 12v567, and like JohnC says, it looks just like a big Detroit for all the world. It is a 2-stroke. She has a 6-71 for a main genny, and a 2-71 for the emergency, they are old enough to say GM Diesel, not Detroit, and the Old Man will correct you if you call them Detroits.

I won't tell you about the night we were trying to take the barge on the hip in a high wind and a moon tide, and Eddie let me push the barge up against the State Dock to get ahold of her. Let's just say a few of those pilings are forever marked as MINE!

 

[Vigilant]

The engine in the Susan Richards is a 12v567, and like JohnC says, it looks just like a big Detroit for all the world. It is a 2-stroke. She has a 6-71 for a main genny, and a 2-71 for the emergency, they are old enough to say GM Diesel, not Detroit, and the Old Man will correct you if you call them Detroits.

I won't tell you about the night we were trying to take the barge on the hip in a high wind and a moon tide, and Eddie let me push the barge up against the State Dock to get ahold of her. Let's just say a few of those pilings are forever marked as MINE!

And the 'GM' in GM Diesel actually stands for Gray Marine Diesel, correct?

 

[ben46a]

And the 'GM' in GM Diesel actually stands for Gray Marine Diesel, correct?

In my research, Gray marine was just the company that marinized the general motors engines in the beginning untill GM took them over and did it in house. If this is the case, GM stands for general motors. Gray marines logos included their whole name spelt out.

 

[Vigilant]

In my research, Gray marine was just the company that marinized the general motors engines in the beginning untill GM took them over and did it in house. If this is the case, GM stands for general motors. Gray marines logos included their whole name spelt out.

This has turned out to be a great thread. I'm learning as I go. Thanks.

Any thoughts on the Bedford engines?

 

[stinkycat]

I had heard of 4-cycle Detroit 8-278s, 12-278s, etc. years ago, but not Cleveland. Did Detroit make these as well, or did I get some bad info?

Also, is this the same EMD that GM owned for so many years?

The engine company started out as the Winton Engines then GM bought the company and changed its name to Cleveland Diesel I think in the late 30's Newer Submarines (WW2) LST's and just about all of the Diesel ships the US Navy had were powered by Cleveland Diesel they were all 2cycle I guess as the large number of ships went away GM decided to go deeper into locomotive engines and large gen sets