Welding Procedure on Boom?

[MRM99]

I have a customer that has a Shuttlelift 3330D carrydeck that has had welding done to the boom (the tabs that pin the point section to the second section, no pictures unit located in chemical plant) when asked about documentation proving that the repair was done to Shuttlelift specs it took him three months to come up with this piece of paper that reads
quote:{ To prepare the tabs for welding you will have to remove all paint grind metal clean. Use 7018 low hydrogen rod to re-weld the tabs back in place, no welder Certification is required to complete this job.}
The tabs are not ever used, but when re-welded on boom they cut into the top tip of both sections of boom. I e-mailed Manitowoc but no reply yet, just wondering if any one has had to do this before, and would welcome any advise. Thanks Mike

 

[Turbo21835]

Your doing the right thing in contacting Manitowoc for information on this. Are you going to be doing the repair, or are you purchasing this crane? Im not sure, but this may be something that requires an Osha inspection and recertification. As said, no positive, but that may be something to look into.

 

[MRM99]

The welds were found during inspection, they are trying to figure out the most cost effective way to fix the problem. If the boom has not been "Fixed" properly it will have to be replaced.

 

[Turbo21835]

If it has not been fixed properly is it possible to remove the weld and redo the repair? Seems to me that the right welder can fix most issues.

 

[MRM99]

I agree total that a good welder can fix almost anything like new or better than new, but this unit is in a chemical plant with their own rules on top of OSHA rules, which means when it comes down to liability the buck gets passed a lot! You go ask one of the operators for a permit to do this and 90% of the time the answer is " I'll have to go ask my supervisor" which is not a bad thing, but after talking to 5-6 different people it gets frustrating and time consuming. I haven't received a price back on new boom sections yet, but it only takes about an 2 hours to pull the old boom out and replace with the new one, 2 guys + Galion & operator. They are weighing the pay the welder to cut out and replace or just replace the boom. If it would have been done right the first time with documentation there would be no problem ointhead but they cut corners, and tried to hide it,
Thanks for the comments Turbo21835 I appreciate any help I can get, this got handed to me after it has been on the bosses desk for about 3 weeks.

 

[Turbo21835]

I dont envy dealing with chemical plants at all. Been in a few refineries and chem plants. I love the brass tag that identifies you. I was told they give you brass tag because it doesnt melt unless temps are over 2000 deg. I also love when you find a line and no one can tell you what it is, where it goes, or if they are even using it. Those places are nothing but a pain.

 

[raflomo]

No Welder Certs Req'd... That dont sound right... dont asme standards say ANY welding SHALL be done by certified welder according to standard #so&so....If it took 3 months to get is it even legit? Even a small deficiency can turn into a large liability.

 

[Countryboy]

Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums raflomo! :drinkup

 

[John C.]

As a former certified welder, the only places that I know of requiring any kind of weld certification is on aircraft, ship building, pressure piping and structural steel in a building. I know of no requirements from any heavy equipment manufacturer. Even all the crane manufacturers that I have dealt with have no provision requiring certification of the welder. It is a good idea for the employer to require their welders to have had their skills tested by a third party, it makes the insurance company feel better if something goes wrong. I have seen proscibed welding procedures put forth by manufacturers and they will stand behind the repair as long as the procedure was followed.

I have seen a lot of crap welding on booms and had to repair some of it.

 

[Lashlander]

I'm certified to replace boom lacing on Lattice Boom Cranes. I was certified by American Crane Manufacturing before they sold out to Terex. I took the class and tests just to make sure I knew the correct procedures involved. Every manufacturer has a different procedure for welding on booms and you need to consult them. In every instance I've seen, the Manufacturer calls for a Qualified Welder. You can be qualified without being certified, however you need to get the procedures from the manufacturer before welding on the crane.

 

[MRM99]

Thanks for the reply guys, been busy last week so I couldn't post. Well after Manitowoc replied asking for accident reports with photos I contacted the plant wide mobil crane supervisor and had a discussion with him, he decided that since the unit supervisor was not really being honest about the "welding procedure" that it was his problem to deal with Manitowoc about this problem (plus it would take an act of congress for us to be able to take pictures in the plant). So its about a month later and its still sitting there with a BIG red tag and locked out with no battery or starter (just in case some one gets smart other things are disconnected too hehe) the only way they can move it is with another crane. I guess they like the rental machine. ointhead

 

[bob b]

was it a broken weld due to a bad one or was any of the metal around itn ditorted from over loading i woud think the weld would have to be x- rayed and possiblied load tested

 

[OMEGASUPPLY]

Repair,

thanks for the reply guys, been busy last week so i couldn't post. Well after manitowoc replied asking for accident reports with photos i contacted the plant wide mobil crane supervisor and had a discussion with him, he decided that since the unit supervisor was not really being honest about the "welding procedure" that it was his problem to deal with manitowoc about this problem (plus it would take an act of congress for us to be able to take pictures in the plant). So its about a month later and its still sitting there with a big red tag and locked out with no battery or starter (just in case some one gets smart other things are disconnected too :d hehe) the only way they can move it is with another crane. I guess they like the rental machine. ointhead

what happen to that crane, we are a certified company for crane boom repair in texas.

 

[TozziWelding]

AWS has a code for heavy equipment, D14.3 in MA all welds on equipment must be done in accordance to ASME section IX. Your best bet is to contact the manufacturer and get a written procedure for the repair and follow it to the letter. As far as testing if the repair is on the boom section, xray will more than likely be out because you can not access both sides of the joint, and it is not a full penetration groove joint. More than likely UT, dye penetrant, or mag particle would be the inspectors choice.

 

[John C.]

While there may be a standard put out by the AWS for welding on machinery, it is most likely voluntary as AWS is not a government organization. As to a state law or regulation requiring adherence to a AWS standard, I would suggest you provide copy and verse of stated law or regulation.

I've had too many sales folk try to read me a riot act that didn't exist in order to compel a sale.

 

[Ravenworks]

While there may be a standard put out by the AWS for welding on machinery, it is most likely voluntary as AWS is not a government organization. As to a state law or regulation requiring adherence to a AWS standard, I would suggest you provide copy and verse of stated law or regulation.

I've had too many sales folk try to read me a riot act that didn't exist in order to compel a sale.

Cleveland Crane and Shovel field welds boom sections all the time,the welds have to be per manufactures spec's,most times nothing more and sometimes x-rays depending where damage is located and always someone to sign off on the welded area for liability reasons.
I went throught this once for refusing tto pick off of a jib section that was welded by an Iron worker in the feild without a proper paper trail.
I have worked for the largest crane rental company in N America for 20 plus years and boom damage has become a serious subject in the last 10 years because of the liabilities.

 

[John C.]

Boom damage on a crane is not the same thing as cracks in an excavator boom.

With that said I have welded on Link-Belt tubular booms and their books say nothing of certifications or specified weld procedures. They have recommended procedures for replacing lacings and specifically state that any damage to the cords requires section replacement.

Again though this is all anecdotal. I'll need chapter and verse on laws and codes before I'll even consider something coming out of a salesman's mouth.

 

[Ravenworks]

Again though this is all anecdotal. I'll need chapter and verse on laws and codes before I'll even consider something coming out of a salesman's mouth.

Welding lace's into a boom sections is a pretty straight forward procedure,what OP is talking about is a whole different animal.
There are references of law and verse in the ANSI standards.
With that said I feel these laws were written to prevent liabilities and gain some kind of control and uniformity
ANSI trumps all in this case

 

[John C.]

ANSI standards are voluntary unless referred to in a law or a government agency regulation.

If you are telling me that an excavator boom has to be welded to ANSI standards, you better be able to show me the applicable laws and regulations that require me to do so. I'm not going to take your word for it.

It is the same issue as an MSHA or OSHA inspector telling me I'm not up to their codes for something on my machine. I tell them fine, show me the regulation on paper and I'll be more than happy to comply.

 

[Ravenworks]

John,we are not talking about welding an excavator, we are talking about a Hyd crane.
I am not going to argue about what you wish to do to your machine.
I will tell you this, have a failure once and the laywers will tear you apart if your welds were not performed to the manufactures procedures.
I have been operating cranes for well over 30 years,have my CCO and I am also a certified crane inspector.
For some of the standards we fall under are OSHA Standard 1926.550 and ASME/ASNI B56 and B30 standards that adress the designs cunstruction and maintenance
I am not a laywer,I just a hard working man like you with that; a laywer doesn't know anything about cranes,but what he does know are the apliccable laws and regulations reguarding crane repairs,they make their living suing people that are ignorant in their profession.
We have had to many catastropic crane failures in our past to thank for this.
Legally you cannot signal a crane or do any rigging what so ever(as of this year) without certifications,is it done without, all the time but hurt or kill someone you stand a lot better chance of survial with you cert's
My point, in my first post I talked about the jib being welded and not re- certified,the person that did the welding is a good freind of mine and I trust him,but I am not going to lift a man basket full of people unless all my ducks are in a row.