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Weak Hydraulics on Case 580SE

Discussion in 'Tractor/Loader/Backhoes' started by bowen, Sep 2, 2015.

  1. bowen

    bowen Senior Member

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    We just repacked the 2 loader cylinders.
    I did add about 2 gallon of fluid that was lost.
    Afterwards it seemed all OK for about 30 minutes, but now the loader will not raise at times.
    It's worse after the machine warms up.
    It's most noticeable when the empty bucket is on the ground.
    More engine RPM's helped at first, then it would not raise at all.
    I can let it run for 60 seconds then it will raise the loader maybe 4". Wait, repeat etc.
    After the bucket is half way up, it will easily raise it on up to the top.
    I have stroked the loader bucket top to bottom several times to get the air out.
    It does have trouble going all the way to the bottom because it seems too weak to raise the machine.
    And at the end of each stroke the engine seems to load up.(At least somewhat)

    I tried lowering the stabilizer arms and it seems too weak to raise the back of the machine.
    So the problem is common to the loader and the back hoe.
    The hydraulic filter was replaced about 50 hours ago.
     
  2. alrman

    alrman Senior Member

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    Need to check the main relief pressure Bowen.
    Do you have a test gauge to 3000psi?
    The main relief valve, located in the loader control valve, controls hoe pressure as well.
    Sometimes they have a bit of trash stuck in them, you can usually see this by removing the valve & inspecting.
    Other times the valve just stops working efficiently, due to wear on the poppet & seat, these valves are fully serviceable with parts available from your friendly Case dealer...
     
  3. OldPhart

    OldPhart Active Member

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    This thread SOUNDS very close to my problem with my '65 530CK, not trying to hijack here. All 7 hoe [Model 32] cylinders just repacked.

    Pressure gauge inserted into port on loader control shows ~ 2000PSI when loader is fully down and lifting the front end clear of the ground @ ~ 1900 RPM.

    Only shows 1000-1200# when any hoe controls are maxed out, boom/dipper/bucket are pretty slow and mechanic says nowhere as strong as they ought to be-the swings and stabilizers seem to operate at normal speed and have sufficient power. He has played with the relief pressure adjustment on the loader control and it varied from ~ 1500 up to 2300 when operating loader, little to no change noted when maxing out any hoe functions so set it at 2000#.

    Filter was pretty badly clogged, lots of crud found in several of the cyls when repacked [this old girl was rode hard and put away wet many times, obviously.]

    I'm no mechanic but I read a bunch on the 'net and am thinking there's crap stuck in a valve somewhere but have no clue which would be the most likely culprit.

    Hoping we don't need to remove and rebuild the hoe valve body...

    We're not looking to turn this thing into a paying enterprise but DO want to be able to dig a septic, foundations and do some stump removal and general cleanup before winter sets in here in NW Montana.

    Any help greatly appreciated!
     
  4. bowen

    bowen Senior Member

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    I have a fellow coming that does have a gauge.
    He talked about checking the pressure at one of the stabilizer ports?

    I suspect the pump, but maybe not. I do know my splines are worn.
    I already know I do not have 3000 psi at any RPM.
    I took the cover off the loader valve yesterday; that sure is lots of lines to take loose....:eek:

    How does trash get past the filter?
     
  5. melben

    melben Senior Member

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    In addition to what alr said, the relief valves that I have had the problem with the lower portion of the valve will screw out, remove the valve, it is on the body coming out at an angle. See if the lower portion with the holes in it turns freely and is loose. If so the valve can be cleaned dried and reloctited being careful not to get loctite on anything but the threads. Tighten it with care so as to not distort the lower body.
     
  6. bowen

    bowen Senior Member

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    Wow. I hope to not take all this off.
    I do know it's a Case loader valve as on page 406 of the parts. (G109580)
    Case_G109580_Loader-Valve.jpg
     
  7. melben

    melben Senior Member

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    Look in the top endcap of the valve, on that section back behind the lines I believe is the relief, It comes out at an angle from the valve endcap. I think I am correct in saying it is the valve back behind the two diagonal lines and near the large line that goes from the bottom up around and fastens to the pipe that goes under the cab. You should be able to easily remove and inspect it.
     
  8. alrman

    alrman Senior Member

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    You only need to remove the main relief cartridge not the entire loader control valve. (it has a domed lock nut)
    It can be tested by installing a test gauge in the circled test port location on your picture ..... easy...
    Main relief should be 2500 - 2550 psi at full rpm.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. bowen

    bowen Senior Member

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    "easy"... :drinkup
    I'm still waiting on some help from a dude with the gauge. Maybe I'll have to go buy one.
    I think mine is slightly different from your diagram, but I do see what the relief is.
    I assume I am being told to check the pressure and if it's low, just screw the valve out and learn from there.
    How much oil will come out?
    Do I need to totally disassemble the valve to clean it?
    Just air to clean?, brake cleaner? WD40?
    I see the poppet in there, item 7.
    View attachment G109580_Parts-Diagram.pdf

    Seems I see some kit to rebuild these that may include some kind of screen. (G110098-87031310)

    Whatever, when I am finished cleaning, reassemble and somehow turn item 9? while watching the pressure.
    How is everyone so sure it's not my pump? Does a pump work or simply STOP pumping?

    Thanks for the help, I am sure glad I don't need to take all of this apart.. at least yet...
    Weak hydraulics on a hoe is a depressing development.:eek:
     
  10. alrman

    alrman Senior Member

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    I only just really looked at your picture properly. Is that valve of yours segmented? (sandwiched sections bolted together)

    Sorry Bowen, we don't see those valves in a 580E over here. They are what is fitted to the 580K.
    Those relief cartidges are NOT servicable. There maybe still some trash stuck in it that you may be able to remove.
    But they do give a little trouble & are known to stop controling pressure as they should. That being the case, you will need to purchase a complete new cartridge.

    PS - a little oil will come out when the valve is removed,nothing too dramatic.
    Be sure to release any air pressure in the hyd. tank.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. bowen

    bowen Senior Member

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    Yes it's segmented.
    I do not understand why you say I have to buy a new one.
    Attached is the complete pdf for the assembly.
    It shows a kit, but I am not sure what parts to order if we can't get some trash out to make it work.
    From the diagram it looks like I can take it all apart...?

    View attachment 406_CASE LOADER CONTROL VALVE - TWO SPOOL.pdf
     
  12. alrman

    alrman Senior Member

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    The kit contains orings & backups to reseal it.
    This will only make a difference if they are damaged, you can usually pull them apart, inspect & clean without replacing the orings.
    If there is any problems with the poppet or seat, they are not serviced separately.

    In saying that, they sometimes don't come apart very easily.:rolleyes:
     
  13. melben

    melben Senior Member

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    The relief you are looking for has a thin 3/4 locknut and a allen wrench opening, As I previously stated, the factory loctite job can fail and the inner end start to screw out of the main body, ALR is correct that the valve in not supposed to be serviced BUT, I have successfully disassembled them cleaned , reloctited them and returned them to service. The openings that the spring loaded plunger uncovers can be inspected and if jammed open by debris can be cleaned. It is worth checking to see if the lower end is loose. YOU DO NOT have to take the whole valve apart to access the relief, just screw it out and inspect it.As I stated before it is the valve on the inlet(top) section that sticks out at an angle toward the front behind the smaller pipes that run diagonal up across the outside of the valve. It controls the pressure for the entire machine, hoe and loader.

    The post that ALR posted does show a breakdown of separate parts.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2015
  14. bowen

    bowen Senior Member

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    First, Thanks to all that responded.
    My help has yet to show up so I accidentally fixed it myself without knowing much about what I was doing.
    First, I screwed the whole thing off without touching the locknut (3/4" wrench) and 1/4" allen in the end.
    Oil was running out as I looked quickly not really seeing how it came apart.
    I did spray some brake cleaner up in the relief end, but never really seen anything that looked like trash.
    Then I screwed it right back in like it was.
    Next I started taking the locknut off, but the adjuster was froze so that it unscrewed also.
    It only came out about 3/4" before it seemed to hit a stop. I did not disturb the locknut at all related to the allen.
    I cranked it with that relief backed out, and the loader seemed to be fixed..!? It would raise the front of the machine which it would not do before.
    And that loose adjustment did not leak oil at all.
    So I screwed it back in to where it was and now everything seems to be back as it has always been.
    I never used a gauge at all.
    Maybe some trash was in there that dislodged when I backed the adjuster out and cranked it?
    (I am assuming that screwing it in raises the pressure to the cylinders)

    If it happens again I need to find a plug with the same threads to stop that oil while I try to disassemble that valve.
    For now it seems OK.:drinkup

    Do you have reason to think the valve needs to come apart to find the Locktite?
    This is a Case valve, not the Parker.
    Case-Valve_600-800.jpg
     
  15. melben

    melben Senior Member

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    The ones that I found with failed Loctite at the lower body where it meets the o ringed sleeve that is on the end were erratic, sometimes the hydraulics were fine, then pressure loss, then work good again. I suspect that you dislodged some debris from the little sliding plunger at the inner end, anything that keeps that form completely closing will shut the system down. If it works, don't mess with it, however you may have the pressure checked.
     
  16. Zap

    Zap New Member

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    bowen, not to hijack your thread but you posted a while back about the side panel latches for your Case. I have a 580D and am in need of some. Did the ones you ordered work out? If so where did you end up getting them. TIA and sorry again for being off topic. Don't see messages on this board.
     
  17. bowen

    bowen Senior Member

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    Go here...
    https://www.heavyequipmentforums.co...Engine-Side-Panel-Latches&p=589196#post589196

    My hydraulics is still working as normal, but I still want to check the pressure.
    Someone suggested a piece of seal maybe was dislodged and made it's way to the relief valve.
    Maybe when I screwed it out the trash was dislodged.
    It's always something...

    But Melben says "if it's working don't mess with it"
    I suppose that's the same good advice that says, "if it works, don't fix it"
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015