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We had gun fire today at the job site.

td25c

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Thanks mitch , I couldn't remember when Ruger started that feature . Good information to know .
 

lantraxco

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A few years ago in Portland Oregon, two rival gangs had a conversation on a busy street near a busy park by Lloyd Center.... over fifty shell casings were recovered, the only injury was to a citizen that had crawled under a car to try to stay safe, caught a ricochet which caused a small wound. One man or woman with a practiced aim and a decent automatic pistol with full clip could have easily taken down the whole group, obviously none of them could hit a barn with a bulldozer and they were standing in the street. In that kind of world, I'll hope for the best when it comes to common sense and advocate the right to carry, concealed or open.
 

mitch504

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Lanway, first-"I'll hope for the best when it comes to common sense and advocate the right to carry, concealed or open"

but, in the situation you mentioned, I doubt I would have opened up. A lot of times, when people are fighting, if you interfere they will all turn on you. It sounds like they weren't paying attention to anybody else.

I really want SC to pass an open carry law. We can already carry open on our way to or from hunting, so on the few occasions when I do want to carry, I'm going to swear I'm going hunting.
 

lantraxco

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Mitch, I completely agree with you on that actually, the only way I would shoot would be in defense of my life or another person's. I guess I was just trying to make a point about the idiots carrying illegaly being worse than anybody willing to qualify for a carry permit and buy a weapon legally.
 

mitch504

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Ok, now I completely agree with you!

In SC, part of the class for your concealed weapons permit is to prove you can hit what you're aiming at, at close range, anyway.
 

oldtanker

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Ok, now I completely agree with you!

In SC, part of the class for your concealed weapons permit is to prove you can hit what you're aiming at, at close range, anyway.

MN is the same way.

Some of the gun forums have some very interesting views on this subject and can be very amusing to read. There are a heck of a lot of mall rangers out there. I really like the "in a crowd, with shots being fired, I'm going to whip out my gun and put the bad guy down with one shot". Kinda of like the CO theater shooting incident. Shooting paper isn't the same. I don't care how many self defense classes one attends. When the target is shooting back it's a whole new ball game. Add in panic by other people, lighting or limit visibility or just innocent bystanders just adds to the situation.

As far as hammer down, that has to do with 20 years of military training. We were always made to carry hammer down. So that' what I'm trained for. My youngest son is currently in the National Guard, infantry. He says they are now training cocked and safety on.

Rick
 

Tinkerer

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Being the proud owner of an Illinois concealed carry permit, I have to bring up one important thing I learned in my CC classes. If you do use your weapon in any situation and hit someone, there is almost a guarantee that you will end up in a long and costly lawsuit.
In regards to the OP's opening statement. I too have been on a job-site (Chicago's south-side) where gunshots were a weekly occurrence. I watched a guy shooting a .22 handgun in a garage one afternoon less than 150 feet from me and the dozer I was running. I heard him because quite often I would shut off the dozer while waiting for gravel trucks. Another time I heard a shotgun go off. A couple minutes latter I see a guy come out of the bushes that worked for anther contractor. I said "damn that shot was close". He said in reply "Ya it was me, I was shooting at a pheasant" Believe it or not there are pheasants in the heart of Chicago. The shooting was so bad at night that the night shift foreman sent the entire crew home in the middle of the shift because there was so many shots being fired very near to them.
 

digger242j

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I've been following this thread with interest. It hasn't been lost on me though, that for all of the discussion, the situation described in the opening post really doesn't lend itself to much in the way of self defense:

if I decided to go in that porta john 5 minutes earlier I would not be writing this, either in the hospital or dead. The bullet hole was lined up directly for a gut shot.

Guys! I gotta go! Set up a defensive perimeter, and lay down suppressing fire! :D
 

lantraxco

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I've been following this thread with interest. It hasn't been lost on me though, that for all of the discussion, the situation described in the opening post really doesn't lend itself to much in the way of self defense:



Guys! I gotta go! Set up a defensive perimeter, and lay down suppressing fire! :D

You can never defend against everything, ask the secret service. However, it seems that firearm related crime is down nationwide EXCEPT of course for those areas where gun laws keep everyone except criminals from having guns, take Detroit, or Chicago... please!
 

emmett518

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If you live in an area where carrying is smart you have to pay attention to what you are doing. If you need the gun you need it right now and the time taken to chamber a round can be a deciding factor. Then there is the gun design itself. Some are safer than others. I have my permit although I seldom carry. I carry a 1911A1 45ACP. I carry hammer down with a round in the chamber. Some more modern designs are hammerless. These guns can only be carried with the safety on. You get some yahoo who doesn't make sure it's on safe it is an accident waiting for a place to happen.

You need to be careful with training. Self defense and safety courses are great but tactical courses can provide ammo (pun intended) for a DA who doesn't believe in armed citizens should you wind up having to shoot someone. It paints you as a Rambo wannbe who's out to kill someone. You take a jury someplace like CA or NYC that can turn a self defense shooting into a manslaughter conviction.

Rick
That gun was designed by John Browning to be carried “cocked and locked”. Unless the gun is defective, the hammer will not fall unless someone pulls the trigger.
 

oldtanker

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That gun was designed by John Browning to be carried “cocked and locked”. Unless the gun is defective, the hammer will not fall unless someone pulls the trigger.

True but I spent from 1974 until 1996 on active duty US Army. 22 years of training isn't easy to overcome.

Rick
 
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emmett518

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That safe act sure is working ain't it! It is crazy to have to worry about that while digging dirt. I would worry about it during hunting season the way some guys shoot after seeing a buck.

Damn straight it's working. None of those Democrat voters were harmed when they were just playing around with their pea shooters. Otherwise, someone in the protected class might have been shot, and that's one less Democrat to cast a vote.

Then again, since Democrats vote, even after death, it might not be a huge problem.

:)
 

emmett518

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Not trying to be disagreeable & understand modern pistols have came a long way but it still spooks the hell out of me of people carrying with a round in and hammer back even with safety's .

Part of my fear comes from a mechanics viewpoint ...... A gun is a machine . sooner or later something mechanical could or will fail , then there is
also operator error & so forth . OOP's ...... Sorry about that aint going to cut it .

Just don't like the idea of carrying one hot all the time .In my opinion the chances of accidental discharge are far greater then the slim chance rising that you would need the gun loaded like that for a situation that hopefully will never happen .

I don't bother carrying a fire arm on my person as it would get in the way most of the time . I do carry a nice leatherman super tool 300 on the belt ..... Can pull it pretty fast if needed .:D

If I was going to carry a pistol it would be a single action revolver . But that's just me :)

If y
I really like those Ruger Blackhawks mitch504 . Bought my first one over 20 years ago & still love it . It's the .44 mag version with 7.5 barrel . In my opinion you aint going to go wrong with that model . Pretty strait forward & simple .

You gotta say for us,

"Well, do you feel lucky? Well, do you punk?"

:)
 

emmett518

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I know that this is probably dumb, but what good will a shotgun do if you are sitting in the portapot? 2nd thing is what good is a pistola if you are sitting in the portapot? I carry, sometimes, when I feel like it. But, nothing worse than trying to take a wizz with a pistol on your belt especially with long johns on, it always feels like a wrestling match just to get the thing out! Got to hold the gun or it falls on the floor. No not that gun:rolleyes:

Glad you are ok! It kills me, it isn't just the theft of ones tools, it's that they are stealing your livelihood. To me it is one of the lowest theives around, they are right next to the rich politicians that do the same thing.:mad:

I do feel better when I see other fellas strapped, at least some one is prepared. It is one of the things I really like about Az, we have a lot of polite drivers here! right to carry state :cool: What I hate are rocks, there are always little rocks and medium rocks and then huge rocks, you can't move dirt here with out a crapola huge bucket of rocks getting in the way.

arggggh......rocks.....

By the way, pop pop pop, means duck and run for cover!:drinkup

I took an AR15 training class, and the instructor ran a hot range. That means that from the first second you stepped foot on the range, guns were loaded, cocked and locked. In fact, if you were caught with an unloaded weapon, you were dismissed from the class. This was far safer than the cold range formula where guns were only loaded just before firing, because you knew that guns were loaded at all times, and you could never lower your attention to safety or your attention to those around you.

The most interesting thing was learning to handle the AR while going to the bathroom in the porta potty.

https://www.defensivestrategies.org/student-level-firearm-courses/dti-vehicle-defense-class
 

emmett518

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A few years ago in Portland Oregon, two rival gangs had a conversation on a busy street near a busy park by Lloyd Center.... over fifty shell casings were recovered, the only injury was to a citizen that had crawled under a car to try to stay safe, caught a ricochet which caused a small wound. One man or woman with a practiced aim and a decent automatic pistol with full clip could have easily taken down the whole group, obviously none of them could hit a barn with a bulldozer and they were standing in the street. In that kind of world, I'll hope for the best when it comes to common sense and advocate the right to carry, concealed or open.

It's why I head slap myself whenever I hear some ninny politician bleat "No one needs more than 10 rounds for self defense". I also head slap when I hear "the gun accidentally just went off". Guns don't go off accidentally. People accidentally pull triggers.
 

emmett518

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True but I spent from 1974 until 1996 on active duty US Army. 22 years of training isn't easy to overcome.

Rick

My instructor taught ten guys who just graduated from Marine Corps boot camp, just before they headed off to Iraq. It was his gift to a family friend whose son was in the group.

When they finished, all ten told him that what they did in his class was head and antlers above anything they did in boot camp. I'm guessing that basic training errs on the side of making training as safe as possible, with as little investment in the actual instruction.

I hear that gun skills are far better with most special forces types, but the kind of stuff available to law abiding civilians is very impressive indeed.
 

ianjoub

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Glad your ok jmac . That's scary stuff . Get the job done & move on to a safer job site .

Unfortunately a man had an accidental discharge at a local walmart we go to . He was lucky no one was hurt . http://www.duboiscountyfreepress.com/handgun-fired-in-jasper-walmart/

Don't know details on what type of pistol he had in his pocket but am guessing it was a semi - auto . My question is was he carrying this pistol "hot" with a round in the chamber ? Or did he unknowingly have a round in and accidently pulled the trigger while reaching in to his pocket ? Either way its scary stuff .

I have heard people talk about carrying a pistol " hot" with the safety on ......... My thoughts are it would be an accident waiting to happen .
I carry with a round in the chamber and no safety, glock, never had an issue in 25+ years.
 
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