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We had gun fire today at the job site.

Discussion in 'Safety Issues' started by jmac, Jun 12, 2014.

  1. jmac

    jmac Senior Member

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    The slug showed up, found it in my trailer cops came and got it. Looked like 38.
     
  2. oldtanker

    oldtanker Senior Member

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    If you live in an area where carrying is smart you have to pay attention to what you are doing. If you need the gun you need it right now and the time taken to chamber a round can be a deciding factor. Then there is the gun design itself. Some are safer than others. I have my permit although I seldom carry. I carry a 1911A1 45ACP. I carry hammer down with a round in the chamber. Some more modern designs are hammerless. These guns can only be carried with the safety on. You get some yahoo who doesn't make sure it's on safe it is an accident waiting for a place to happen.

    You need to be careful with training. Self defense and safety courses are great but tactical courses can provide ammo (pun intended) for a DA who doesn't believe in armed citizens should you wind up having to shoot someone. It paints you as a Rambo wannbe who's out to kill someone. You take a jury someplace like CA or NYC that can turn a self defense shooting into a manslaughter conviction.

    Rick
     
  3. birdog

    birdog New Member

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    This is a very bad idea. If you drop your weapon or otherwise strike the hammer, it will go off. 1911s do not have a hammer block to stop the hammer from striking the firing pin. The only way to safely carry a 1911 patterned weapon is condition 1(locked and cocked) or condition 3(hammer down on empty chamber) or the worthless condition 4(unloaded).
     
  4. old-iron-habit

    old-iron-habit Senior Member

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    Fortunately there is a great choice of newly designed concealed carry weapons that can be safely carried cocked with a round in the chamber. All brands and models have a dual safety that is natural and very easy to use with a little practice. And if we are not practiced it would be foolish and possibly deadly to carry and attempt to use.
     
  5. pajibson

    pajibson Senior Member

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    A gun is like a parachute...If you dont have it and need it you will never need it again.
     
  6. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

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    Not trying to be disagreeable & understand modern pistols have came a long way but it still spooks the hell out of me of people carrying with a round in and hammer back even with safety's .

    Part of my fear comes from a mechanics viewpoint ...... A gun is a machine . sooner or later something mechanical could or will fail , then there is
    also operator error & so forth . OOP's ...... Sorry about that aint going to cut it .

    Just don't like the idea of carrying one hot all the time .In my opinion the chances of accidental discharge are far greater then the slim chance rising that you would need the gun loaded like that for a situation that hopefully will never happen .

    I don't bother carrying a fire arm on my person as it would get in the way most of the time . I do carry a nice leatherman super tool 300 on the belt ..... Can pull it pretty fast if needed .:D

    If I was going to carry a pistol it would be a single action revolver . But that's just me :)
     
  7. oldtanker

    oldtanker Senior Member

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    Most of your gun discharge accidents with carry pistols are the models that have no exposed hammer or are hammerless plus have no safety. The accidents occur when someone draws/presents their pistol and the stick their finger in the trigger guard will pulling it out.

    I've heard that a .45 1911 can go off if dropped with the hammer down with a round in the chamber. Got told that over and over in the army. I'm willing to be it dates back to the day of the revolver as the military sidearm. Got told it was illegal to shoot a .50 at troops and people in parachutes too only to read in the tank gunnery manual the lead factor for the .50 for paratroopers. I have never heard of it actually happening. Carrying a auto loading pistol with an empty chamber you may as well not have it. Most people who do have to defend themselves are in a situation where the time, while the fear factor is high and adrenalin is pumping like mad, needing to chamber a round is going to be the difference between successfully defending themselves and failing. In other words in the time they are trying to chamber a round they are dying.

    Revolvers, being somewhat bulky for what I consider a decent chambering, are harder to conceal. That is why few people carry one for self defense. Plus should they be in a prolonged gun fight reload times are too long. The NYPD were about the last holdout on revolvers. Had to do with the cost of switching over. As the gang violence escalated they had more officers dying. When they did a study they found that while the officers were using their handy dandy speed loaders the bad guys with high cap 9MM.s were running up and shooting the officers at close range. Using a speed loader where time is very important requires constant practice and a lot of it.

    Now you can claim all you want that reloading isn't necessary and think you can make one shot stops. Do it when the target is shooting back. That gives marksmanship a whole new meaning. Think I'm wrong? Check out cop shootings. While under extreme stress cops, who are trained, generally shoot a lot of rounds to put one bad guy down.

    Rick
     
  8. cutting edge

    cutting edge Senior Member

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    Things are pretty bad when your neighbours scare you more than your enemies.......
     
  9. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

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    Appreciate your opinion & input oldtanker .

    Don't disagree at all with you in that context . We all are in a wide range of different environments .

    Like I said .... Probably just me as I don't feel comfortable carrying any fire arm around cocked with a round in even with the safety on .

    If I was going to carry a pistol It would be in a belt or shoulder holster and probably stay with a single action like this http://www.ruger.com/products/newModelSuperBlackhawkStandard/specSheets/0813.html

    I really like the safety gate under the hammer on Ruger pistols . Pretty simple yet it's there if you would ever need it .
     
  10. mitch504

    mitch504 Senior Member

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  11. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

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    I really like those Ruger Blackhawks mitch504 . Bought my first one over 20 years ago & still love it . It's the .44 mag version with 7.5 barrel . In my opinion you aint going to go wrong with that model . Pretty strait forward & simple .
     
  12. mitch504

    mitch504 Senior Member

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    Yep, my father bought it in '74, I started using it in about '80. He gave it to me a year or two ago.
     
  13. Steve Frazier

    Steve Frazier Founder

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    td25c, do you carry your revolver with the chamber under the hammer empty?

    I carry a 1911 in condition one. Modern 1911's are virtually foolproof, the only way it will go off is if the trigger is pulled or it is in a fire long enough to ignite the powder. The firing pin will not activate unless the trigger is pulled and the trigger can't be pulled unless you have it in your hand with the the grip safety depressed. On top of that there's a manual safety that deactivates everything and must be flicked off to fire. I agree with oldtanker, the only way to carry this firearm effectively is in condition one. With proper training it's one of the safest handguns available.
     
  14. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

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  15. lonfu

    lonfu Member

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    I know that this is probably dumb, but what good will a shotgun do if you are sitting in the portapot? 2nd thing is what good is a pistola if you are sitting in the portapot? I carry, sometimes, when I feel like it. But, nothing worse than trying to take a wizz with a pistol on your belt especially with long johns on, it always feels like a wrestling match just to get the thing out! Got to hold the gun or it falls on the floor. No not that gun:rolleyes:

    Glad you are ok! It kills me, it isn't just the theft of ones tools, it's that they are stealing your livelihood. To me it is one of the lowest theives around, they are right next to the rich politicians that do the same thing.:mad:

    I do feel better when I see other fellas strapped, at least some one is prepared. It is one of the things I really like about Az, we have a lot of polite drivers here! right to carry state :cool: What I hate are rocks, there are always little rocks and medium rocks and then huge rocks, you can't move dirt here with out a crapola huge bucket of rocks getting in the way.

    arggggh......rocks.....

    By the way, pop pop pop, means duck and run for cover!:drinkup
     
  16. Steve Frazier

    Steve Frazier Founder

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    The diagram below shows how it works. The firing pin has a concave notch cut into it and the round red colored pin is spring loaded and drops into this notch like a keyway to secure the firing pin in place. The trigger has a very slight amount of freeplay if you will, this freeplay allows the levers you see to raise the red pin out of the way before the sear is contacted to drop the hammer. In addition, the trigger is locked in place by the grip safety which will not release until the gun is gripped in your hand and the safety is depressed by the web of your hand. And finally, all of this is locked out by the thumb safety. 3 safeties on one handgun!!

    safety.jpg
     
  17. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

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    Thanks for posting the diagram Steve . Sounds like it has a lot of built in redundancy . Looks pretty Bullet proof .
     
  18. mitch504

    mitch504 Senior Member

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    Dang, td, that pun was painful!
     
  19. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

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  20. mitch504

    mitch504 Senior Member

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    Yep, all Ruger revolvers manufactured after 1973 do. The Blackhawk and Super Blackhawk seem to be mostly the same weapon, except for the chambering. If a Ruger has 3 frame screws, it is pre-1973. If it has only 2 frame screws, it has the transfer bars. If you send them a pre-'73, they will convert it free.