US Style detachable goosenecks in Australia.

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . Thanks fellers for the the responses to this thread. . . I now understand the problem and why you use them in the 'States

Cheers

 

[Randy88]

Scrub, once you go detach you never go back to anything else, about as simple as it gets.

 

[willie59]

Scrub, once you go detach you never go back to anything else, about as simple as it gets.

I second that Randy88, we have both beaver tail ramp trailer and a detatch lowboy as well. It really doesn't take more that a few steps and few moments to work that detatch trailer. I had to go in the field last week to replace a rubber track on a Komatsu dumper. Loaded up a new rubber track on the rear of detatch, Polaris ATV buggy, 15K lb Nissan forklift, T190 Bobcat with forks, and cribbing blocks needed to support dumper while replacing the bum track. Once that detatch is busted apart, everything is low to the ground, and I don't think that 15K lb Nissan would much like the ramps on a beaver tail ramp trailer.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . Randy88 I hear what you are saying . . . but its horses for courses. As others have said height is normaly not an issue over here.

Since I started this thread I have actualy seen a detach!

Talking to the owner/driver he reckoned it was a pain in the azz and could not hack five hundred miles of desert corrugations (washboards). He was going to weld it solid as they never bothered to detach it . . . he reckons it was much less of a hassle on his other trailer to load over bi-fold hydraulic ramps.

The only reason he bought it was it was heavily discounted in a yard because no one wanted it and he got it very cheap.

This site linked below works well on my computer and shows another manufacturer of the standard style of Australian equipment trailer. You will note there is no concession to extreme height reduction and they would be of little use in the 'States.

http://www.tufftrailers.com.au/low-loader/

I just can't get my head around percieved problems loading and it must be a breeze these days with widening trailers and the fancy ramps.

Cheers

 

[willie59]

Wow, nice trailer scrub, but if we had to pull those in the U.S., with the turns we have to make, we'd scrub the tread off of the tires.

 

[JDOFMEMI]

Willie

You must have missed the part about the self tracking axles. Several axles in those trailers shown self steer to reduce scrub.

 

[The Learner]

its quiet common for the front (1st) and rear (4th) axles to be lift up and the rear 2 (axle 3 and 4) to be self tracking steerable so tire wear is no worse than the tandems u guys use
cheers
the learner

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

You must have missed the part about the self tracking axles. Several axles in those trailers shown self steer to reduce scrub.

I have been out of the game a long time but I think the tracking axles are a comparitively new innovation in Australia . . . some fellers in the industry might chip in and set me straight.

I know they were common in Europe many years ago and also in New Zealand in the early 'eighty's

I know I was pulling similar four axle spreads in the 'sixty's with no such fancy touches . . . we were mainly on dirt though and I wonder how the fancy suspensions would stand up in tough going.

Any comments from you Aussie blokes . . . and how many of the four axle floats on the highway have the self steering axles?

Cheers.

 

[Wick]

Yair Scrub
Quite a few quads getting about down here with BPW steerables, seem to stand up to the rough stuff pretty well, a lot easier on tyres, they are generally fitted with an air operated lock for reversing, need to be a bit careful on deeply bermed undulating roads that are common around here though, have seen results of one cut in on a tight sloping corner where the 2 rear steerables have taken most of the load and swiveled sideways caster wheeling the trailer into the table drain and almost overturning the trailer with a 35 odd ton machine on board, lifted the drive on the pm 18 inches off the ground on the uphill side with the opposite corner of the steer flattened to the stops. took a half day with another machine and a heavy recovery truck to hold it up and pull it out, old mate more or less had to flick that pair of jocks.

 

[Randy88]

You guys down under, sure have a different idea of a trailer than we do, I'll grant you that, liked the photo's so we could see what you run down there, I don't think I'll trade with you though for anything, either you don't have winter with snow and ice to contend with, height issues, or uneven driveways to contend with, theres no way on earth I'd ever get to where I needed to go with an axle spead like that, steerable would be somewhat better, but just more to fix and go wrong over time, also whats the legal width down there, here its 8 foot 6 inches, those sides hang over past the axles pretty far by the photo's, we need outriggers here for wide loads and 3-4 feet off the ground is pretty far up to have almost nothing sitting on the trailer and everything sitting on outriggers and boards.

I'm also curious, how many machines have you laid over the side either while loading or unloading or had slid off the side and flop onto the machines side? Don't you have tight corners and trecherous hills to work around? With the machines sitting above the axles and over the sides past the width of the axles, your pretty top heavy and your center of gravity is high, how do you handle that issue. Also what tire size and brake drum sizes are on the trailers down there, by the photo's I thought they looked smaller and in metric didn't mean anything to me, around here 22.5 run larger drums and brakes than the smaller 17.5's do and have less brake problems with brake fade, almost all detaches have the larger brakes, drums and tires on them, deck height would be over 4 foot heigh to get the best of all worlds, also are machines down there somehow smaller in size or designed lower loaded height than here in the states? I know you mentioned in meters which was about 14ft 1 or 2 inches, but does everything fit in that height or less and do the equipment manufacters cater to the traler industry somehow to get that?

To me those look like a glorified step deck with a hydraulic tail on them, do the outriggers hydraulicly widen out too somehow? And also does the trailer main frame narrow or shorten up in height as it goes over the four axles or how does that work, do they run double frames above the axles or are the axles underslung like truck steer axles are here or how do they work, I couldn't tell in the photo's? Sorry for all the questions but I'm trying to figure out how you can haul 50 ton plus on those trailers and have the frame heavy enough to do so, how about really heavy loads like say 80 ton plus, here they run steerable axles out the back and a dolley up front between the truck and trailer to scale more axle weight, hows it done down there or how do you add to those trailers to get up to get up to really heavy haul?

 

[Nige]

Simple answer Randy. In Oz & Europe we can run much higher axle weights - or maybe the US has a lot more bridges, overpasses, etc, that have onerous weight restrictions on them.

Check this out. This is 300+ tons (load + trailer + bogies) on only 12 axles, so close to 30 tons/axle. Note the distinct lack of bridges power lines, and other height restrictions.



Or this one. Same model of loader on even less axles ...........

 

[Randy88]

Nige, so is there no towns, rural areas, cities, rivers, streams, creeks, culverts, bridges, overpasses, anything there but wide open terraine in the whole continent or those loads banned from running there, also what are the roads made of over there, pavement four feet thick and considerable rebar in them, no swampy area's, marshes, rainy, snowy, anything, is the whole continent void of weather or during those times, loads are not allowed to move? Also are there no hills like say miles of 7-8% slope to run up and down winding and turning as you go or shorter steeper hills or is everything flat likes in the picture. 30 tons per axle, holy sh** what type of tires are you running anyhow, solids or 30 ply to carry that weight on 8 tires, or are there more inside the frame we can't see, like 16 per axle instead of the standard duals set up per axle or what? As they say now you have my curiosity up.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . Hello again Randy88 It's always pleasing to start a thread that creates a bit of interest. As far as you specific questions go you will realise I am pretty much out of the loop with the modern equipment so I hope some of the younger blokes who are actualy running this gear will chime in.

To be honest I have have never had a problem loading or getting off. I have seen a few issues though, most caused by operators not knowing how to give me half an inch of controlled movement with a power-shift . . . most of my work was dozers and scrapers.

I've had a couple of dozers come off. One was to much exuberance on my part combined with an off camber bend at the bottom of a hill . . . the other was that the wheels dropped right through the bitumen after heavy rain. I was lucky there was no damage to speak of. . . we never chained the dozers on in those days.

I am talking of a different era of course when the speeds were much lower . . . the Macks and Pete's I drove back then had 28 or 32mph diffs and that was it. It was mostly dirt road though and even today under those conditions 30mph with sixty tons would be quite enough.

The recent trailers I have seen have a hydraulic power-pack (driven by Honda gasoline engine) and a hand held remote to operate the ramps and widening . . . I believe some even do it with their iPhone.

This "gallery" section of this link may give you an indication as to configurations for heavier loads . . . they just add extra axles.

I trust these links I post here work on the other side of the world?

.http://www.draketrailers.com/index.php/gallery/deck-widener#2-DSC05893

Cheers.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . Guday Randy88. . . your #32 post came up while I was typing. I was just going to ask Nige where his #31 post pictures were taken . . . those trucks some how look "foreign" to me.

Cheers.

 

[The Learner]

heres a pretty wide range of the aussie trailers the site tells you roughly what weights we run on each size trailer

http://www.lustytrailers.com.au/trailers/

http://www.trt.co.nz/trt2_Manufacturing.cfm

 

[Randy88]

Looked over the trailer links, you've got far different terraine over there than anything I have here, none of those trailers would do me any good anywhere, dirt roads seriously, around me if its not paved or graveled with extensive tile in the road beds, you couldn't walk on any road let alone dirve anywhere, ever.

Those widening trailers only had one picture that showed the swing widening, how do the others work and are the axles solid across the trailer or do they seperate with the widening halfs as well I thought I saw pictures of both ways. With dirt roads I don't need to ask about salting the roads in the winter, thats abviously not a worry over there, with road salt and gravel dust, any pull out outriggers never work around me, nobody wants them for that reason, its swing out out riggers with a board on top. A really neat idea would be to put the swing hydraulic widening on a detach, but doubtfull the swiing portion would work for long, it would either be rusted solid or packed with gravel dust in days and wouldn't work anyhow or froze up in the winter. Thanks for the info, you guys down under definately operate in different conditions than I do, I'll envy you in a couple months from now, when its 30 below and I'm digging my trailers out of a snow bank and trying to get my brakes unfozen so I can move the trailers to haul my equipment around.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . Randy88 Some good info and general arrangement drawings on that second link posted by The Learner.


I sympathise with you about the snow and ice of your Northern winter.

This has been an interesting discussion and shows how different folks build and adapt to different conditions.

Seriously though, apart from the height limitations imposed by your infrastructure (low clearance bridges and underpasses) I doubt any US conditions would be a problem for a Kiwi or Aussie trucker using their familiar home grown equipment . . . the legality would be a whole other ball game.

It is obvious the various American manufacturers have put a lot of thought and research into developing gear to get 'er done under difficult conditions and the detachable goose-neck is just one of those solutions.

Cheers

 

[Nige]

Randy, to answer a few of your questions.
Both the trailers in those photos are 8 tyres per axle. You can't see the inner ones because of the way the photos were taken. Not sure about the jeep in the 2nd photo, it appears they are only duals but they look pretty big to me, maybe 14.00x24, maybe even bigger than that when you compare them to the tractor tyres. The bogies under the first one are actually 100% hydraulically steerable from a control on each bogie.

Moving's also relatively simple. Call the police, they send a car to act as escort at the front. Support truck behind as 2nd escort and have at 'er.......

The first photo, believe it or not, is climbing an 8% grade, that's why there are 3 tractors hooked on to it. Usually there would only be one. Simply there are no terrain features that give you perspective how steep it is. That particular load moved from 1500ft above sea level to 10,000ft ASL in 90 miles....!! The 2nd one was hauled close to 500 miles from the dealer's yard to the customer. Of the 500 miles maybe half or more was on dirt roads.

The roads are no different to maybe what you have in US regarding construction, thickness of blacktop, etc, but with one difference - it's doesn't rain - ever ..!! The area where those photos were taken has not seen rain for 300 years according to the Discovery Channel. Basically the road is desert sand heaped up from both sides, compacted and then blacktop laid on top of it.

For Scrub puller's interest. The tractors in the 1st photo are an Astra (made by Iveco's heavy haul division), an Iveco Turbostar, and a Volvo FH16 pushing. The 2nd photo is also a Volvo FH16.

Oh, and lastly it's typical (anywhere outside the US from my experience) that all utilities are laid underground so generally they are no phone, power, or other hanging cables to worry about.

 

[Randy88]

Scrub Puller, Nige, thanks for sharing the information, climate and conditions play a vital role in many things, no rain in over 300 years, as they say just add water and then see what would happen in that area, I can imagine burying the infrastrucure would be the safest place for it, without water, you don't even have to worry about those set of headaches even with it buried. theres no freeze thaw or frost heaving to deal with, no torn up roads due to salt eating them away, no moisture damage to contend with, just exactly what do you have to deal with over there? I know we'll send over some engineers to help install round abouts for you to contend with, that would eliminate those travel congestion areas for you, we can also have them escourted by the DOT to make sure they get there safely, they'll help revolutionize your safety standards for everyone's benefit.

 

[Nige]

DOT. Nooooooooooooooooooooo thanks....!!! You can keep them to yourself. Somewhere on YouTube there is a video of us hauling a Cat 797 up Highway 5 in Chile. 2 lowboys, one with the chassis complete with tyres, the other with the bed. A sight to see heading up a 2-lane highway. Can't find it right now but I will and will post it later.

This is a different clip but this lowboy with a 797 on board is heading down the same hill that the 994 was heading up in the first photo of Post #31 ...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=431VopzI0L4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxjcPEE4jIg&feature=related