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TS14B’s vs 627’s

Discussion in 'Scrapers' started by 631G, Oct 20, 2018.

  1. 631G

    631G Member

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    I’m evaluating the options of buying smaller Terex scrapers vs 627’s. The main reason being the significant cost difference but also the lack of qualified operators. Terex TS14 units are notoriously tough and simple to repair so I think it’d be a good choice for a younger and less capable operator pool that we’ve got available here in GA. Plus mechanics are hard to find for newer machines or you have to go to the dealers and have their service men come out for big money. My inclination is and always has been to run Cat but we aren’t moving mountains (X<500K CY) and there all fairly quick hitters. I’m also pretty sure we’re due another slow down within 3-4 years, so I’d rather not get over extended by laying out $150K per unit for some 627E’s when I could get a solid TS14B for about half that price and get it all paid for before the next slump. What input would/could you all offer on this thought of Cat vs Terex? Anything else I should factor in here?
     
    nicky 68a likes this.
  2. StanRUS

    StanRUS Senior Member

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    Terex specific parts available (parts that can't be sourced from outside venders) for TS14Bs?
     
  3. 631G

    631G Member

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    Stan, were talking about the pros and cons of Terex vs Cat scrapers
     
  4. Junkyard

    Junkyard Senior Member

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    Lack of available parts for Terex would be a con.....
     
  5. StanRUS

    StanRUS Senior Member

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    Yep, and replacement parts availability is IMO #1 question I ask. My experiences with TS14Bs are very limited; early versions would travel though slippery-watery ground better versus 627s which would get stuck and require a push out a local sand mining pit. So I'll give 1 pro for Terex.
     
  6. 631G

    631G Member

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    I was under the impression that the Detroit’s and Allisons behind them were fairly common place. Is this not the case?
     
  7. Junkyard

    Junkyard Senior Member

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    Sure motor and trans probably wouldn’t be bad. I don’t know enough to say they’re easy or hard. Beyond power there are still planetary hubs, control valves etc etc. It may not be bad, just worth looking into. There are guys on here that run them, I’m sure they can say yay or nay on parts. I’m partial to Cat but that’s just from exposure and experience.
     
  8. 631G

    631G Member

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    Stan, I miss understood your original message. I just replied to junk yard and was under the impression that parts were readily available due to the engines being Detroit’s and the transmission being Allison. I agree with your point though. No parts equals no work and then the purchase price becomes irrelevant. I suppose this is why the guys that run these keep several for parts?
     
  9. 631G

    631G Member

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    Yeah I’m hoping they’ll chime in on this thread. I just left a large Omaha based company to return home and they run almost exclusively Cat for the very reasons were discussing. It’ll be a little different for me going from unlimited equipment fleet and support network to boot, back down to a company of 30.
     
  10. StanRUS

    StanRUS Senior Member

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    631G,
    60 series engine production stopped in 2011 with the 14L. OEM new parts (like new head castings, cranks etc) will probably become scare and pricey, IMO. A few of the S. Cal contractors have used 60 series engines to re-power Cat scrapers with great success; I'll miss that source for reliable economic engines. Relying on the used parts market throws a monkey wrench into any system that 'wants everything' yesterday.
    Allison trans, no problem parts are available from trans specialist shops.

    Another PRO for Terex; no cushion hitch rebuilding and expensive parts.
    TNT Blanchard is running 25+ TS24Bs, hardcore Cat mechanics are giving the scrapers a thumbs-up. Blanchard's fleet also uses 60 series re-powered 651Bs working side by side with the Terex scrapers. The ONLY Terex negative-con is a machine sitting idle waiting for a simple OEM part like a draft-arm to bowl trunnion ball replacement part.

    Hopefully other HEF members will chime in with their experiences.
     
  11. 631G

    631G Member

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    Stan,

    I wasn’t aware of the ceasing of production of the 60 series. That really changes the equation. You’re 100% right about the price increase and availability of the engine components dropping off quickly. I’ve also read about contractors updating older 57’s and 660’s to tier 2 series 60 engines in California to meet the emissions controls req. have you seen anyone repower with Cummins?
     
  12. StanRUS

    StanRUS Senior Member

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    631G,
    Cummins dealers have repowered a few machines; scrapers up to 630 series size for customers with gov grant money. Cummins X15 14.9 liters Stage 5 (2019) could possibly be used to meet Tier 4 final reg's versus Cat's C18 ACERT. If you can buy the engines with SAE 0,#1 or 2 bellhousing it's not to complicated repower scrapers.
    Cummins newer emissions DPF-SCR-Douser is a single compact unit; helps with installations.
    Cat dealer repowers: Each dealer shop-location individual repowers can be different. Some repowers require custom parts for example 988F to C15 988G spec'd engine. C15s, two different displacements (liters), on-road not the same as off-road, different connecting rods etc. Need D8T bellhousing, modified. Custom hydraulic pump, relocate oil coolers, modified fan drive, radiator-intercooler, wiring looms etc. Time wise 5 months (local dealer req'd 7 months). IMO, Cal gov could save money by not offering repower grant money for certain models.
    Before jumping into a repower project you need to research and find out a few details; otherwise you'll jump into a cluster-F.
    Our' economy; I am leary. Always been 8-10 years cycles during my lifetime.
     
    mikebramel likes this.
  13. Buckethead

    Buckethead Senior Member

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    Every TS14B I was around had 4-71s front and back. No series 60s I know of unless someone repowered them.
     
    Rusted and Vetech63 like this.
  14. StanRUS

    StanRUS Senior Member

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    Ha, you're getting technical! Series 60 or 50 would be over engine-ed for TS14s repower.
    TS14B 1972 4-71 GM, N65injectors, Gross-Hp 160 / Net-Hp 144 @ 2100Rpm
    Max torque 423lb-ft @ 1400Rpm
    6-speed Allison CTD-3461, integral TC-420 torque convertor
    Net-Hp both engines 288Hp
    Length: 44" Width: 29" Height: 42" Weight dry: 1780lbs
    Euclid-Terex manufactured differentials, axles and wheel planetary
    TS14B.jpg
     
  15. Buckethead

    Buckethead Senior Member

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    I was referring to this:
     
  16. StanRUS

    StanRUS Senior Member

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    I know what you referring, LOL OBVIOUSLY I SCREWED UP!
    I wouldn't purchase TS14s unless they were cheap because differential-gearing parts or replacements might be difficult to find.
    Series 60s or 50s won't work; to much torque and horsepower for the application.
    Cummins 4 banger, JD, Deutz?
     
    Buckethead likes this.
  17. bam1968

    bam1968 Senior Member

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    20 plus years ago I worked for a guy that had a TS-14 that he replaced the front engine with a 6-71. IIRC it was a pretty simple upgrade that didn't cost an arm and a leg. I didn't run it alot but in my opinion putting the 6-71 in front made a huge difference. It all but eliminated the need for a push cat in alot of situations. Where as we almost always needed a push cat with the 4-71.
     
    Buckethead likes this.
  18. Dave Neubert

    Dave Neubert Well-Known Member

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    From my view point the TS 14s weak link is transmissions if you get some get a spare front and rear transmissions. finals and differentials have not given much problems or pick up a junker for parts
     
    Buckethead likes this.
  19. 631G

    631G Member

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    All wanted to follow up and close out this thread. We've decided against scrapers all together and are moving to purchasing haul trucks. We just don't have the men to run these machines and the companies that have scrapers here in Atlanta have that dirt locked down from a price stand point.
     
    StanRUS likes this.
  20. terex herder

    terex herder Well-Known Member

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    I'm a one man band so thats not my arena, but if you are short of man power, why haul trucks? Is this a long distance haul? One man can move dirt with a scraper, but with haul trucks you need several to make it worthwhile on the loading end.
     
    Buckethead likes this.