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True capacity on a small dump truck??

Discussion in 'Trucks' started by RTSmith, Nov 12, 2010.

  1. RTSmith

    RTSmith Senior Member

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    Please excuse me if this gets confusing... I have a 2002 GMC 6500 with a 10' dump bed. It has a GVWR of 25,900# and hydraulic brakes. All done to negate the need for a CDL. I do know that there were similar trucks that have a GVWR of 33,000#. My question is what are the true differences in the trucks? As I have done a bit of hauling, I find that it is very easy to leave the crusher running at 32,500# with 1/2" chip limestone. :D My question basically is my little truck just derated for license requirements, or is there an axle/suspension difference? :beatsme

    Then the next question may be- If they are found to be basically the same, if the license plate is correct, is running over the GVWR a ticketable offense? It just doesn't take much to make 6 tons of material, which is my current "legal" haul.
     
  2. Bumpus

    Bumpus Well-Known Member

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    .
    Get caught hauling more than your licensed for, and you get a ticket.
     
  3. RTSmith

    RTSmith Senior Member

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    Very true. I can buy a bigger plate easy enough, and have a CDL also. But I don't want to tear up my truck, but don't want to leave off any potential load either..! Remember- In this part of the world, the rule of thumb is "if it don't fall off, haul it" and I can fit a lot more in the 10' bed than 26K will allow for. :D
     
  4. TomG

    TomG Well-Known Member

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    We have 3 International 4300 trucks rated for 25,999# and they can haul 35,000# no problem, trust me:D. However that is not legal even if you have a CDL (I do), if were one pound over 25,999# its technically a ticketable offense. One of the trucks is a 1996 and we have actually never had a problem with it ever so they can definitely haul more than 25,999# with out a problem but i don't know the differences between a truck rated 25,999 and 33,000. I have a feeling they are just de-rated and just have hydraulic brakes because most 33,000# trucks have air breaks.
     
  5. CRAFT

    CRAFT Senior Member

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    One thing to keep in mind ..... even though you can increase the plate What does the sticker plate (usually found in the door jam) on the truck for front max GVW and rear max GVW ..... it don't matter what you think, DOT or MOT or County Mountys ..... what ever they call them, they do go by those sticker plates .... if you go over the RATED capacity, they consider it a safety factor issue. You wouldn't stand a chance in court over that one......:usa
     
  6. Drc

    Drc Well-Known Member

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    And if you pull a trailer with a rated load capacity of over 10,000 lbs you need a CDL.

    yep for sure they'll haul more than legal
     
  7. PSDF350

    PSDF350 Senior Member

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    Let me ask this my 01 f550 on door jam it says 17,500# the axles come out to 19,500 the town hall when I registered it, registered it for 19,500 because thats all the book showed for it. So my guestion is what would they go by, the registration the sticker that says 17,500 or the axles that combine for 19,500 which is the same as the registration?
     
  8. tuney443

    tuney443 Senior Member

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    By the placard on your door jamb.
     
  9. tuney443

    tuney443 Senior Member

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    Yes to axles/suspension differences.Also yes to bigger tires,brakes,etc.

    Yes again to being a ticketable offense.The fines can be over weight on your registered GVW, over on your GVW on your door placard,over on your axles,and over on your tires.You can be placed out of service,your ride can be impounded,they can make your day a nightmare.The fines can be huge.We have one DOT ***** by me that sometimes checks tire pressure--if the pressure isn't at the max for what your weight rating is stamped on your sidewall,he will red tag you there.
     
  10. PSDF350

    PSDF350 Senior Member

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    On the placecard on the door it says 17,500# but it also shows axle weights which come out to 19,500# which are they going to go by?
     
  11. tuney443

    tuney443 Senior Member

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    Your GVW,if it says 17,500,that's it then.Doesn't matter what other componentry adds up to,completely irrelevant to the latex gloved DOT officer--relevant to you that you have nice beefy axles.My 33,000 GVW C-7500 Chevy dump happens to add up the componentry perfect to get to the GVW,including the OE Michelin tires: Front axle--11K lbs.---Rear axle---22K lbs.
     
  12. RTSmith

    RTSmith Senior Member

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    On the GMC in question earlier, the door jamb shows front axle 8,100# and rear for 19,000#. This adds to 27,100#, with a stated GVWR of 25,950#. I would be curious to know exactly what the max axle ratings were before the possible "derating" took place. Oh- by the way the GCWR is listed at 30,000#, and the upfitter installed a 60K pintle. Might be a moot point.
     
  13. heavylift

    heavylift Senior Member

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    the coppers will also look at the load ratings for the tires.. If your tires don't have the rated capacity times two, then your capacity is also lowered..
    So if your front tires total less than 8100 then that's the max you can scale.
    same with the rear if they don't total to 19,000
    7600 + 16000 = 23,600...
    heck ,I drove a tandem dump that would hold 60,000... but due to shortness and tires, 44,000 was the most it could haul.
    Two half scoops of material on the front please, about 12.5 tons was all I could haul...
     
  14. tuney443

    tuney443 Senior Member

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    What ''derating'' are you referring to?There are more trucks at that app. GVW-[25,900-25,999] than any other for a mid sized truck.Axles,tires,frame,suspension--it's all factored in.There isn't any such animal as what you're referring to.There is also no way that truck of yours can only pull a 4,050 lb. trailer.You have to be reading your placard wrong.
     
  15. Gmc7210

    Gmc7210 Member

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    My 85 Gmc has tags in the glove box that tell an "off highway" capacity that is different (higher) from the one on the door jamb
     
  16. Greg

    Greg Senior Member

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    Get hauling more than your tire weight rating and you get a ticket no matter what you are licensed for. Here they will also check for compliance with the bridge law too. You could possibly wind up with three tickets. Over weight for liecnse, over weight for the spread between the axles and over weight for the tire load rating. This makes it a real winner for the state revenue enhancement program.
     
  17. RTSmith

    RTSmith Senior Member

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    Remember- The GCVWR is amximum truck, trailer, and cargo. I assume when one trailers the truck bed will be empty. The empty weight is 13,000#. Therefore max trailer/cargo weight is 17,000#. But that won't even allow a TLB and trailer...
     
  18. ke6gwf

    ke6gwf Well-Known Member

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    As others have said, you got 4 things to consider:

    1.
    The nameplate rating by the manufacturer.
    This is basic! If the person that built it says it can only carry a certain amount of weight and you exceed that, you are overloaded.
    Now, there are many trucks that are underrated so car drivers can run them, and if you want you can sometimes get the manufacturer (or another vehicle completer) to re-rate it for you based on the actual mechanical capacity (in which case they also make a new nameplate for the truck), but then they are opening themselves up for liability so don't count on it.

    2.
    Fed/State DOT max axle weight/max group weight/Bridge Formula
    For the truck you are talking about, you don't need to worry about this as much because you are so light. In CA they will let you across the scales with 20K on a single axle and 34K per set of doubles, but that doesn't mean that if the CHP inspector checks he won't look at axle ratings and bridge formulas.


    3.
    Tire Sidewall rating.
    This rating is predicated on having the correct tire pressure for max weight.

    I ran a tiltbed pintle hitch trailer that is rated at 52,600 lbs GVWR and the spec sheet says it can handle a 42,000 lb load, so the boss assumed that they could slap a 38,000 paver on there no problem.
    I started working there and the first time I loaded the paver on I knew it was overweight just from looking at the tires.
    Took it to the nearby quarry scales and found that it was putting 42,000 pounds on the trailer axles.
    The max DOT allowable for the set is 34k, and the combined sidewall rating was only about 40K, so there's 2 tickets right there! (and a safety issue)
    I tried loading the paver further forward but the rears on the 10-wheeler went over 34k before the trailer got under 34k, and then the steer tires hardly had any weight, and then I was exceeding the Bridge Formula because the wheelbase wasn't long enough to have both sets a 34K.
    My point was you have to make sure your tires are rated for the load carried, despite what any tag might say!


    4.
    Mechanical capacity of the vehicle.
    If you have a truck rated at 25,500 with hydraulic brakes, I wouldn't care what the axle weight ratings are or what the tires are rated for, I would be worried about the brake ratings!
    Most of the other things mentioned are mainly paper violations and might be able to be easily reasoned away in your mind (although not so easily in court!), but if you are overloading the design capacity of the truck or any components of it, you are endangering your life. Never mind, I don't care about your life, but I do care about the life of my family and everybody else on the road! :)


    Note I didn't mention registered weight in there. That's because in many states (such as CA) that is a declared number. I can register a truck at the unladen weight, and if I have a fat driver in it with full tanks get an over weight ticket.
    (I had something like that happen a few years ago at United Rentals when they changed to the declared weight system. They registered an F550 flatbed at the unladen weight, and I got pulled into the scales and written up as overweight with just a generator in the bed. Had to wait for them to fax the Owner Responsibility paper over... Don't leave home without it I learned that day!)
    I see large trucks with very low stickers because all they haul is insulation or corrugated drain pipe.


    So, basically you have to look at the GVWR, the individual axle ratings, the tire sidewall ratings (and air pressure), and the registered weight, and make sure you don't exceed any of those. If you are towing a trailer, then you got to also think about the Bridge Formula, hitch rating, GCWR rating on the truck, over 10K=license class jump, etc.

    In the Mack 10 wheeler I am driving right now (~24K empty), I can get 12 tons in without overloading anything if it is stacked all the way in the front of the bed. If the pile reaches the tailgate my drivers will be overweight (DOT 34K), and if I go over 12 tons the front axle will be over it's rated weight (14K). I even have flotation tires on the front rated at 10K+, but the nameplate on the axle is only 14K, so...

    You basically got to try different loads and check each axle weight separately to find what is legal and safe.

    Ya, it sucks not being able to get a "Full Load", but it's a lot safer, and your truck will last a lot longer too! (not even counting the damage from the tree and minivan full of kids that gets taken out when the brakes go out)

    Ben~