Triaxle roll over

[2004F550]

My fire department got dispatched today to a "dump truck rollover" in a yard. Instantly I became very worried that it could be one of our truck's because we have a fairly firm hold on the materials business in our area except for one company about 10 miles away that is cheaper. So we get up to the scene and I was in the rescue truck so we got right up close to the truck incase we needed to do extrication on the guy. The guy was unconcious but he came alert and was transported to the hospital with some minor injuries. Anyway, the kicker I thought was when the owners of the company came down. They came down running from the road and I thought they must have been worried about the driver, to my disbelieve however, they ran by the driver and started to climb all over the truck and look at the damage to the truck, as the driver is laying there on the backboard. I guess some people have different values but I would have gone to the driver first. As for the truck it was a KW T800 triaxle, but a very short wheelbase. The landscaper working the job said the driver started to dump his load and he was on the little road that was just built by the landscaper with a Bobcat so that the triaxles could get get access around the house. It was not compacted very well however and gave way to the low side as he dumped, then the truck rolled over, luckly, some large boulders just missed the cab when it rolled or the drivers injuries would have been much worse. As we were leaving the local wrecker showed up with his single screw L8000 Ford, he quickly decided it was too much for him and a crane was called. I didn't get to see the truck being taken out nor did i get any pictures but I thought I would share my excitement for the day with you guys.

 

[CT18fireman]

Not to be a jerk, but if I was the incident commander, I never would have let the owner climb on the truck until it had been righted and secured by the wrecker.

 

[Steve Frazier]

Not for nothing Jesse, but I don't think I'd be the one to argue with the owner of a flopped $100,000 truck on a job site!! That's probably a good way to have your head handed to you, lol!

2004F550, I had a similar thing happen to me 25 years ago. While exiting a one lane bridge, I was forced to the shoulder by an oncoming truck. The shoulder gave way, sucked me into the ditch. When I stopped, the truck started groaning and creaking, I felt what was coming next and put my feet up on the passenger's seat against the door. The truck slowly rolled to its side, I ended up standing on the passenger door.

I called in on the radio, the company owner jumped on the air and the first thing he snarled was "Is the driver shoveling the load off or standing there with his thumb up his butt?" (edited for the Board :wink2 ) No concern for my health, just wanted to be sure I was working. I wasn't hurt and was indeed shovelling the load off, 15 yards of bank run on an Autocar 10 wheeler, then they brought in a JD 844 and we righted the truck ourselves. Checked the oil levels and I was back on the road within an hour.

There was no emergancy services involved even though it was on a public road, I was unhurt and there was no property damage. I know for a fact if even a cop had told my boss he couldn't touch the truck, there would be hell to pay!! :eek2

 

[CT18fireman]

We had triaxle roll while coming downhill onto a bridge. Fire Captain told the owner not to go near truck, owner did anyway. Owner left in cuffs in the back of the squad car. Charged with interfering with emergency services. Had to pay a big fine.

He had fair warning. As I said I would not let anyone go near it. Why accpet the responsibility.

 

[2004F550]

Yea Jesse that talk went on. Something like "get away its not safe" from our chief, then the owner yelling about his 100,000 dollar truck etc. Our chief backs down way too easily and is intimidated easily too. So that was the extent of that. But it wasn't to safe your right

 

[littledenny]

Interesting thread -

Having just taken the Extrication course, and firefighter training, I'm getting more and more involved in local accidents and incidents. I've been around a few close calls on the operations side, and now seeing the emergency response side of things.

Law here is that NO ONE interferes with things unless the incident commander says so - Emergency workers, firefighters/extrication team/EMTs - whatever rule the scene and the Sheriffs/Police WILL haul off anyone who gets in the way - owner or bystander. Seen it happen a couple times already. All it takes is one warning, a contrary jesture, and a nod from the IC, and the dope is cuffed and stuffed.

Understand the boss concerned over a 100K truck, but if he didn't even stop to consider the driver, hurt or not, I'd not have him for a boss for long.

 

[Steve Frazier]

Jesse knows my background, many here do not so I'll add my two cents.

I've got over 25 years service as a volunteer firefighter and did 6 years as a first responder first aider, I got burned out quick on the EMS work. I've served as 1st and 2nd Lieutenants, Captain and am currently President of the Company.

During my years of service, I've seen a drastic change in the attitude of the administration of the Department which is trickling down through the ranks. For lack of a better word, I'll call it power tripping. Sometimes it seems that those who have no other means of authority in their life end up being officers in the fire service and use every chance to exercise this new found power.

I'll give only one example of dozens that I can choose from: A few years ago we were dispatched to a woods fire. Upon arrival we found a circular pile of brush about 10' in diameter smoldering, obviously an unattended controlled burn. The homeowner came out when we arrived, an eighty plus gentleman who has lived in town for 50 some years and the OIC started reading him the riot act.

He didn't have a permit, and had left the fire for a short time to get some lunch. I was getting upset at the treatment of this gentleman, he was unaware of the need for a permit, and the fire, though unattended was going nowhere. It had rained the day before and was in fact still drizzling while he was burning, perfect conditions for a controlled burn. Yet he was treated as a criminal. I had to apologize to his son, one of my clients for the gruff treatment. Scenarios like these are far too common and are one of the reasons I remain a member, to try and bring back some sensibility to the Department.

Now I wasn't on the scene of the truck roll over here, but as described, no one was hurt and the truck had already gone from an unstable state to a stable one on its own. I don't know how many of you have worked with a dump truck on its side, but they don't often move again once they've fallen over.

If the truck had been on its side for any length of time without catching fire, chances are pretty good it wouldn't as ignition sources cool quickly when the truck is shut down. It takes quite a bit of heat to ignite diesel fuel, even more for motor or hydraulic oil, the flammable liquids that would be present. So in reality, just how dangerous is the truck at this point?

If I were the owner of the truck, I'd want to access the damage, plus be sure the recovery efforts didn't cause any more damage! I've seen a few wrecker operators that really ought to be in another line of work they do so much more damage while righting a vehicle. What harm is there in allowing him to look things over?

Yea, he was a jerk for not being concerned about his driver, but does this warrant mistreatment?

I know I've gone way off topic, but this is a real peeve of mine with the fire service. It has a detrimental effect on public perception of us which is good for no one.

I guess maybe that was a dollar's worth! :Banghead

 

[CT18fireman]

I will agree with you Steve on the power tripping officers. Seems to come from the younger, newer generation of volunteers (being just under 10 years I guess I fall into this categorey, though I am not presently an officer) It bothers me when a 5 year member who has taken one class is barking orders to 20 year members with so much experience.

Scene safety on the other hand is something I took, and still take very seriously.

I guess it can go both ways, obviously the old man in your story was treated with no respect.

 

[2004F550]

I am a first year firefighter but I was a cadet for 4 years prior so I had some experience from that and it wasn't that big of a change becoming a firefighter since we have such a liberal cadet program. Anyway, I just don't understand the fire department in some respects. In my station, which is at the northern end of a 22 sq mile town with a population of about 10,000 now, we have a firefighter who has been in the departmentr for 55 years, he was everything from Lt to Captain to Chief and everything in between time and time again. Now at my station we have a Lt who just moved here 5 years ago and joined when he came to our town. All he can do is give this old man a hard time over not participating in every drill when he goes and about his habits and overall just being a pain in the butt. I mean a hard time over everything, it just makes me mad because this guy started the station that we belong to 55 years ago and it wouldn't be anything if it wasn't for him, yet this Lt. who is realitvily new to town and the department treats him like a probie. I just keep my mouth shut and go about my business but it just pisses me off......anyway thats my rant for today lol..

 

[digger242j]

...yet this Lt. who is realitvily new to town and the department treats him like a probie. I just keep my mouth shut and go about my business...

Understand that I'm just playing the devil's advocate here for a minute, and I have no knowlege of the personalities involved at all.

There is an axiom that goes something like, "In any volunteer organization, 10% of the people do 90% of the work." I believe there's truth in that statement.

It certainly sounds like the Lt in question likes to throw his weight around, which is not a desirable quality in a leader, but is it possible that he's able to get away with it because he's one of that 10% ? In other words, does everybody else recognize that they'd have to carry more of the load if he were not in that position? If that's the case, and he and everyone else knows it (whether they conciously admit it or not), then you'll probably have to just put up with the guy and his bad behavior. If that's not the case, then it shouldn't be a big deal (for someone who has some clout in the organization), to call him on it, because he's being more of a liability than an asset anyway.

 

[littledenny]

Darn interesting thread --

In reply to Steve's comments -

Sure sounds like the older gentleman got poor treatment - You'd think people would exercise a bit of common sense, but seems like it's not all that common these days.

Re the issue of crawling all over the turned dumptruck -- You're right about the truck being pretty stable on it's side, and the likehood of it not catching fire. Still, having the owner, all bent out of shape and excited, crawling over it, while firefighters, investigators and whoever else needs to be around it is still busy seems unsafe in my opinion. The owner could slip on grease, fuel, or a poorly placed step and add further injury to the scene. He might fall on top of someone who doesn't really need to be fallen upon. Then he'd likely sue the jurisdiction for his own injury.

I'll counter with your own argument - if the truck's not likely to go anywhere soon, and not likely to suffer any further damage in the short term - What's the owner's rush?

I'm a little new to the First Responder/Firefighter game, but I've been around heavy vehicle recovery for a long time. I'd not let an amateur, owner or otherwise, to go crawling around, in a tither, on a scene where I was responsible. That said, I'd certainly allow him to calm down, and then have a voice in how to go about recovering the truck.

Still, Steve, I'm with you on the idea that someone suddenly put in charge of something often lets it go to his head - power often replaces common sense. I've spent to better part of a lifetime learning to be a leader, and I'm still learning. Funny, the local Fire Chief calls me Colonel, while the paid guys call me Rookie - and I'd like to think I respond to both titles appropriately.