• Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

Transmission Fault light on Case 650k Series 2

mleto1

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2016
Messages
23
Location
Louisiana
I have a new to me 2006 Case 650k Series 2. It has been sitting with very little to no use the last 2-3 years. One issue I'm having is the Transmission Fault light comes on immediately after cranking the dozer, even before I move the joystick. Also, the display is not showing F, N, or R. And the transmission speed gauge is not working (immediately after cranking the needle drops, but goes back to zero) .

However, the machine seems to run and operate fine in all directions. The bump up and down buttons also work fine.

I have cleaned the battery terminals, checked fuses, etc. Also, I checked a few things on the 9 pin deutsch diagnostics connector based off GaryHoff's recommendations on an older thread concerning a Case 850k.

Key off:
C to D=117ohms

Key on;
A to B =12.3v
A to C =2.58v
A to D =2.45v

Any recommendations on what I should be checking from here?

Thanks!
 

GaryHoff

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
810
Location
Alberta, Canada
Occupation
Heavey Equipment Mechanic
Any fault codes? If the transmission light is on, there should be fault codes.
If you read some other posts you probably did this, but check all of your fuses by the batteries. They get corroded and cause issues. Replace them if they are corroded.
At the dash there needs to be 12 volt power at pins 1 and 28 of the x5 connector.

If you have proper power to the dash, its likely that the dash has failed.
 

mleto1

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2016
Messages
23
Location
Louisiana
Gary,

I accidentally left put the fault code on the first post. The only code I'm getting is "no can".

I have checked all of the fuses and they look fine. I also looked at the relays, and there was a decent amount of green corrosion behind relay #13 which is Drivetrain Controller. Should I just replace this relay to be safe? Is this something that needs to be bought from my dealer? Or can it be bought at a NAPA or similar?

I also did the tests you asked about. Key on, dash unplugged, multimeter grounded to battery. I saw 11.72v on pin 1, and 12.31v on pin 28.

Thank you for the help!
 

GaryHoff

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
810
Location
Alberta, Canada
Occupation
Heavey Equipment Mechanic
ok. We need to start with some basics. So there is no fault codes, except for no CAN? Check if there is any stored codes.

Does the machine still move?
Have you changed all the fuses by the batteries? (If you find corrosion, then clean the terminals too. The corrosion is usually white)
As for your relays, you can test them one at a time by switching them to the crank relay position (k9), then see if it still starts. (You could also put them in the light relay spot)
Clean the corrosion off of them, and the pins. Be careful not to spread the pins.
 
Last edited:

mleto1

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2016
Messages
23
Location
Louisiana
Gary

I replaced all of the fuses with new and checked for corrosion. Cleaned all relays and pins. And swapped the light, drivetrain controller, and brake relays around to make sure they all worked in he light socket.

I don't see any other faults besides the "no can", unless there is another way to check. It's the only one listed under faults. Besides faults the menu shows "soft ver", "Serv rmdr", and "use data".


The dozer seems to operate fine in all directions. I also noticed that the parking brake light does not work as I'm using the brakes. It does come on for a second when the machine is first cranked.

Thank you for all of the help so far. It's sincerely appreciated.
 

GaryHoff

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
810
Location
Alberta, Canada
Occupation
Heavey Equipment Mechanic
mleto1,

With the information you have provided, I would suggest that you have a failed instrument cluster or wiring to the cluster, based on the following:

1. Since you said the machine starts, moves, and steers, that means your drive train controller, joystick, and all related wiring are working. That means the only controller that can be offline is the instrument cluster.
2. Since you still have 117ohms from C to D on the diagnostic connector, you have proper can resistance.



I would perform the following checks:

1. Remove the instrument cluster (dash display). The wiring harness is prone to rub in this area. Check for wiring damages.

2. At the x5 connector, check pins 30, and 36 for proper ground. (I would recommend going from the + on the battery, to each wire, it should show 12V)

3. At the x5 connector, check from 23 to pin 28. There should be 117ohms. (this is the CAN wires)

Advise on the results. If the above checks are good, then you probably have a failed instrument cluster.
 

mleto1

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2016
Messages
23
Location
Louisiana
Gary,

After disconnecting the dash I checked ground on pins 30 and 36. Both showed 12.3v with my power lead directly to battery.

When checking resistance from 23 to 28 I was not getting any reading on my multimeter. I inspected the wiring inside dash and didn't see any issues. After doing this I went back to the diagnostic port and confirmed the 117 ohm from C to D.

After doing these tests I cranked the machine, and it would not move at all. I killed it cranked it several times with the same result. I cycled the parking brakes several times. I double checked all fuses again and everything looks fine. The machine just won't move, all blade functions are fine. This same thing happened to me right after I brought the ma home home a few weeks ago. For 2 days it wouldn't move, then just started working again like normal.

I've been cranking the machine almost every day and moving it a little. So it moved fine yesterday after checking the fuses and relays.

Any ideas?

Thanks!
 

GaryHoff

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
810
Location
Alberta, Canada
Occupation
Heavey Equipment Mechanic
mleto1,

Sorry, I had a typo. At the x5 connector, the CAN wires are 23, and 29. Please check resistance from pin 23 to pin 29. Should show 117 ohms.

Since the machine didn't move, there should be other fault codes. Access the fault codes using the service/enter switch and the up/down arrow switch on the dash. I would expect to see fault F4621. This fault will cause the machine to not move.
I still suspect a faulty instrument cluster. Your symptoms are very typical of a bad cluster, just need to do the checks to confirm.
 
Last edited:

mleto1

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2016
Messages
23
Location
Louisiana
Gary,

When checking resistance from pins 23 to 29 inside the dash I'm not getting any reading on my multi-meter. I went back to the diagnostic port and checked from C to D and saw 117ohms.

The machine moved fine today. I ran it for several minutes with no issues.

I'm still not seeing any faults besides "no can".

Thanks!
 

GaryHoff

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
810
Location
Alberta, Canada
Occupation
Heavey Equipment Mechanic
Your readings suggest that you have an open wire in the "CAN" circuit to the instrument cluster. The open circuit can only be within 16" of the instrument cluster. (this is because the can resistor is aprox 16" from the instrument cluster, and you are reading the resistor at the diag connector)

I would recommend checking resistance on the following :
1. Pin C on the 9pin deutsch connector) to pin 23, at the x5 connector (at the dash) - should have continuity
2. Pin C on the 9pin deutsch connector) to pin 29, at the x5 connector (at the dash) - should have 117ohms
3. Pin D on the 9pin deutsch connector) to pin 23, at the x5 connector (at the dash) - should have 117ohms
4. Pin D on the 9pin deutsch connector) to pin 29, at the x5 connector (at the dash) - should have continuity

Advise on results, it will show which wire is damaged. If results do not match, run jumper wires as follows:
pin c on the 9 pin deutsch connector to pin 23 at the x5 connector
pin d on the 9 pin deutsch connector to pin 29 at the x5 connector
With jumper wires in, the "no can" message should be gone.

(you should be able to carefully back probe in the jumper wires into the x5 connector at the dash.)
 

mleto1

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2016
Messages
23
Location
Louisiana
Gary,

I did the tests and saw these results;
1. Pin C on the 9pin deutsch connector) to pin 23, at the x5 connector (at the dash) - should have continuity No continuity
2. Pin C on the 9pin deutsch connector) to pin 29, at the x5 connector (at the dash) - should have 117ohms No reading on Multi-meter
3. Pin D on the 9pin deutsch connector) to pin 23, at the x5 connector (at the dash) - should have 117ohms No reading on Multi-meter
4. Pin D on the 9pin deutsch connector) to pin 29, at the x5 connector (at the dash) - should have continuity No continuity

I then jumped the can wires as you suggested, and cranked the machine. The dash was completely different;
The track speed jumped to 60%, but then went off after a little bit.
"No can" no longer blinks, but it is still shown under faults. That's the only fault.
RPM shows in the digital display for the first time.
"F" is blinking randomly next to the RPM
Parking brake is lit up, but doesn't go off when brakes are released.
Trans Fault light is still on.
Machine does not move.

I then disassembled the dash completely, and found where a mouse had chewed the CAN wires (yellow wire and black wire in a shield, and the ground for the shield). These are chewed up right against the connector, and I don't know if it could be repaired without a new harness. There are 3 wires going into the connector, but just 2(green and white) coming out.

I'm going to the dealer tomorrow to get a price on that harness. I believe the PN is 87441568, but not real sure. I'm bringing my dash with me to try and ID the correct part. Do you think this could be repaired, or will I need to buy a harness?

Thanks!
 

GaryHoff

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
810
Location
Alberta, Canada
Occupation
Heavey Equipment Mechanic
Congrats, good to hear you found the wiring issue.

I would recommend repairing this. It should only cost a few dollars to fix. I don't think you can get a new harness for the price of a bit of wire, some pins and a crimper.

Disconnect the connector, remove the wedge lock with plyers, and remove the pins using a small screwdriver to carefully push the lock tab. See the below website for parts. I'm sure you can get this stuff locally. You can get it from the case dealer, but they will probably charge you more. Also case doesn't sell a crimper.

Case part # for pins are: 225052c1 (male pin), and 2250523c1 (female pin)

https://www.wirecare.com/deutsch-connectors.asp?type=industrial&series=dt&contacts=3
 
Last edited:

mleto1

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2016
Messages
23
Location
Louisiana
Gary,

Is it ok if I extend the black and yellow wires via heat shrink but connectors to make up some
Length before the deutsch plug? This would put a few inches of wire out of the foil shield.

I ordered the connectors today, and will be trying to fix it tomorrow.

Thanks!
 

GaryHoff

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
810
Location
Alberta, Canada
Occupation
Heavey Equipment Mechanic
Yes, it would be ok to extend the wires. Just make sure to make a good soldered connection, and cover with shrink tube.

The reason they are in a foil shield is to help reduce signal interference into the CAN wires. If your going to extend the wires more than a few inches, twist the wires together, and that will reduce signal interference.
 

mleto1

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2016
Messages
23
Location
Louisiana
Gary,

I was able to get buy new pins for the deutsch connector, and put everything back together. Everything on the dash worked perfect, and the transmission fault light was off. I cleared the old codes, and ran the machine for about an hour. Everything was perfect, and I no faults ever popped up. I checked several times.

After parking the machine I jumped back on it about 10 minutes later. Immediately after cranking the trans fault light comes on, and the machine won't move. Codes 4532F, and 4531F.

I have a manual on the machine now and understand these codes are directional control steering axis faulted. I then cleared the codes again, turned ignition switch on, put parking levers down, moved throttle to hi-idle, and pushed joystick forward. Both codes came back immediately.

I disconnected the connector x50 at joystick and connector x56 at the drivetrain control module. Both look great with no corrosion. The manual is telling me to check for an open circuit between pin3 of X56 and pin27 of X50, and an open circuit between pin4 of X56 and pin26 of X50. I tried to do that this evening, but I can't find the numbers on these connectors. I've also looked through my manual and have been unable to ID the wires I'm supposed to be checking. Can you assist? When checking for an open circuit I should be checking OHM's and looking for no resistance correct?

So if I check those wires to confirm an open circuit then what next? Are there tests to that I can do on the joystick itself? I understand that joysticks fail in these machines, but would it be as intermittent as what I'm seeing (once every few days or so it won't move when cranked). I also understand these joysticks cost a small fortune, so definitely hoping it's a simple fix.

When I had the joystick out of the machine I unscrewed the white plastic plug (slotted for a screwdriver). There was definitely some moisture in there, and a few drops of water came out. The bad thing is now the plug won't go back in because there was a conduit nut inside the joystick housing. It looks like I'll have to disassemble the joystick to get the plug back in. I may just silicone the plug in for now, and not risk messing something up inside the joystick. Unless it's easy enough to take apart.

Thank you so much for the help, and let me know your thoughts.

Jay
 

GaryHoff

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
810
Location
Alberta, Canada
Occupation
Heavey Equipment Mechanic
Good to hear you have resolved the "no can" issue.

Fault codes 4532 and 4531 disable machine movement. They also usually mean the joystick has failed. Water in the joystick is not a good sign. The joysticks are fussy, and are more prone to failing on open machines. Voltage spikes (from boosting the batteries) are also hard on the joysticks.

The joystick communicates with the drive controller only with the "CAN wires" (which is the pins you are wanting to check) If the can wires were bad, you would have a "no can" fault again.
The faults 4532 and 4531 are internal to the joystick.

Since you said you have the manual, see distribution systems section. Go to page a.30.a/36 and page a.30.a/33. This will give you the pin outs of the connectors.

If you are checking continuity, put your multi meter on ohms, and check for low or no resistance. I like to use a multi meter with a buzzer on it, because the buzzer will put some load on the wires.

At connector x50, pin 26 is wire 526, and pin 27 is wire 527. (these are "CAN" wires)

At connector x56, pin 4 is wire 526, and pin 3 is wire 527.

I would check the following

resistance from pins 26 to 27 at connector x50. Should read 117ohms.
resistance from pins 3 to 4 at connector x56. Should read 117 ohms.

Then do the continuity tests as you were going to.

If all checks out, you have a bad joystick. If you have a electronics repair shop, they may be able to help you. It is a Rexroth CAN joystick. No one here will repair them, so we just replace.
 
Last edited:

mleto1

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2016
Messages
23
Location
Louisiana
Gary,

I cleaned the Joystick real well, and removed all of the moisture. While trying to ID the can wires at connector X56 I pulled the wire loom back and saw chewed wires. I'm pretty certain these are the can wires. The copper was not actually touching between the two wires, but VERY close. I'm reading 117ohms on these 2 wires. Do you think this could have been my intermittent joystick issue? After taping the wires up I installed the joystick and the machine worked fine. I cranked it up and moved it about 15 times over the weekend and have not had any more faults. I'm hoping I dodged a bullet and don't need a joystick, but what are your thoughts?

Thanks!
 

Attachments

  • dozer1.jpg
    dozer1.jpg
    49.3 KB · Views: 56
  • dozer2.jpg
    dozer2.jpg
    44.3 KB · Views: 53

GaryHoff

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
810
Location
Alberta, Canada
Occupation
Heavey Equipment Mechanic
Your ohms readings are good. Those appear to be the CAN wires. If/when those wires touch, you will get a "NO CAN" message displayed.
I don't think the damaged wires is your joystick issue. I think your joystick issue is more related to the water you found in the joystick.
I would just keep using it until it completely stops working.
 

Jdtech99

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2020
Messages
14
Location
Senatobia, Mississippi
Currently working on a case 650k series 2. Open cab machine. 1700 hours. Machine has been running fine with zero issues. While dressing up a job the machine was under a light load just dressing up and completely stopped pulling. All hydraulic functions work great. I did verify I have good charge pressure. On the cluster all gauges work as should except the track speed gauge and also when I move fnr lever it still shows n for neutral. The park brake symbol stays on and also trans light. I have 1 fault code 4533f and. I have checked all fuses and relays. Swapped relays and double checked for connection or corrosion issues. Not much help from the dealer locally. All they are saying is sounds like drivetrain controller took a dump. But I'm not so sure about that. Any help would be greatly appreciated!! I'm also getting 120 ohms when checking between can hi and low. Just replaced joystick. Still nothing. Help please!!!
 
Top