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Trailer brakes not releasing

Discussion in 'Trailers' started by suladas, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. suladas

    suladas Senior Member

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    I will snap a picture tomorrow, but here's the link to the part number for the slacker adjuster that was replaced when it was serviced last, I noticed the nut, that makes sense. The only mention of seals is "hub seals not leaking at this time". None were replaced, nor any bearings. Yes I noticed the wheels like the hub, it took awhile to get them off, especially with two flat tires and not being able to hit them.

    After replacing shoes to adjust slacker adjuster I just turn the slack adjuster in until the shoes contact drum, then half a turn back and they are set?

    https://www.haldex.com/en/na/aba/ha...applications/12-14-brake-assemblies/40010305/
     
  2. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    IMO anytime a wheel/hub assembly is off EVERY thing in there is inspected, cleaned, seals replaced unless grease hubs and then the machine reassembled when I know all is up to hard work. Will be a max diameter on the hub side of the drum, 12.25 drum should be 12.35-12.37 or less than 12 and 3/8" Will still look quite thick.
     
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  3. 63 caveman

    63 caveman Well-Known Member

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    again all your stuff looks good from pictures so clean and grease. I would go ahead and clean and paint wheels as well, crappy looking wheel get the DOT guys attention. Don't over torque hub nut most damage I see to wheel ends is to much preload on bearings, but make sure they are locked down we don't want to loose a hub. Tidy up air lines and ABS cables as well.
    FYI the leading edge of the shoe lining is always thinner that the meat of shoe just look at the new ones.
     
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  4. suladas

    suladas Senior Member

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    Yea I noticed compared to the new shoes, they had give or take 50% left, no sense in putting new shoes on. I got everything back together, slacks and s-cams all got grease pushed in, the slacks took grease pretty easy, 2 s-cams were incredibly difficult to put grease in but did get it in, will be greasing them each time I use trailer for the next few times. Had to replace all 8 studs, no matter what I did I couldn't get nuts to thread on nicely to old studs, even with new nuts, the threads looked ok but my electric impact wouldn't put the nuts on so I played it safe and replaced all 8. Hope the others are better, or else i'm spending $1000 just on new studs. But when I was testing the brakes, I noticed a decent difference in how fast/far the push rods are moving. The brake I worked on is great, a few others not so much. I was planning on greasing everything again, and then going ahead/back some more times working the brakes. All brakes were releasing fine no dragging, just difference in the movement of push rods. The drums pretty much measured 12 1/4, there is really no wear on them, since they were new with these shoes and the shoes aren't even bad enough to replace.
     
  5. suladas

    suladas Senior Member

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    Took trailer in for CVIP, was scared when they told me $5000 in parts, $7000 in labor to fix trailer.......Until they rattled off the list of like 50 things, 95% of which is a bunch of BS. Apparently one ramp is bent, I stopped by and I couldn't see it and I even said who cares? It works fine the ramps are so overbuilt it's crazy, it's not safety, it's not part of the inspection. And they said one ramp doesn't contact the ground properly when down, but they did it without the deck tilted so not even doing it properly, they contact fine if the tilted is tilted. I never got a break down, but they figured on 2 new ramps, replacing ram etc etc basically replacing everything for the air ramps because apparently the ramps don't work properly. They may be slow, but they go up and down for me, so I don't want them touched. I know better, with most things like that if they try to "fix them" they will end up breaking them, and it's a waste of money to spend like $5k on something that works.

    The other items include license plate threads stripped, some reflective tape is a bit worn, outside rail is a bit bent (maybe 5" long and bent in 1/2", not much, there a 3/4" hole in a mudflap, the connecting link on safety chain is seized (why do I care, it doesn't effect the strength and I don't need to pull it off?), a few small holes in the decking, a couple d-rings ripped off and holes in the side rail from it, one of the locks for the tilt deck the handle is broken off, and a million other little things that don't even matter. Even if I did have them fix everything (not a chance) I don't see how they could possibly be at $7000 in labor, 50 hours fixes a lot of stuff. I am going to fix all the little stuff, and I know with my welder helping me I can fix every single nit picky thing with maybe 10 hours labor, minus the brakes and ramps which i'm not touching.

    Maybe i'm too lax because it's a trailer, but does anyone care if 2 tires are a bit cupped? It's an equipment trailer that gets bounced around, i'm sure the alignment isn't perfect but as long as it's not burning up tires like crazy, I don't see any concern.

    The few things that were a bit of a concern, they said all 6 pins holding slack adjusters to pods were seized so they couldn't measure cam rotation for inspection, could they not just cut them and replace? Or pull the slacks off the s-cam (assuming it's not seized too)? They also said one s-cam tube was crushed I forgot to look so no idea how much not the s-cam still has room to turn fine, now is it fair to say that should be replaced, or should it be as long as cam turns fine it's ok? The brakes are working perfectly now once greased up good so no actual concerns. I was planning on having them do everything related to the brakes, it's not much anyway but I want to make sure i'm not getting screwed.
     
  6. suladas

    suladas Senior Member

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    Here's a picture of the slack adjuster.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    Really should get a gas axe(Acetylene Torch) and heat the clevis pins get them free then replace them, that will slow brake reaction time. S-cam support tube, so long as NOT in contact with the cam itself can be dented, if is interfering with rotational movement or does have contact drag then replacing is not a bad idea. I would want the holes in the frames fixed where the D-rings came off, that is structural, as far as the rest, cosmetics are just that but latches and safety chains I would want them as functional as feasible.
     
  8. suladas

    suladas Senior Member

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    Yea I figured might as well replace them, it shouldn't be that big of deal for them to get old ones off. Truck is in the shop at same time so I have no way to get trailer back until truck is fixed and considering the pile of parts it was in when I went there, it's going to be a bit, thankfully all warranty, so I figured just let them take care of any brake/axle issues and I can fix the rest in a day and take it back for sticker. I had planned to weld on all new d-rings to get rid of the holes. I am going to just replace both safety chains.
     
  9. Junkyard

    Junkyard Senior Member

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    Some heat and good penetrating oil should free those pins up. Like you said, a good of what the quoted is cosmetic or non-critical stuff. Labor seems out of sight to me. I'd have them do what you're not comfortable with and tackle the rest yourself.

    The joys of ownership! :)
     
  10. 63 caveman

    63 caveman Well-Known Member

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    suladas,
    Sorry bud but I have to say this:
    You asked some basic stuff at the start of this thread and you were given solid advice from the folks here. From the replies you have posted, either you did not know how or did not have the time to take it (when I say clean up and grease, it means just that. Including slack adjuster pins, not force some grease through the fitting). If you came to me for a safety inspection (I have a license and do PA. state inspections) I would do the same thing as the shop you took it to (to cover my a$$). You can bit$h about the shop, but they can tell that you are taking too much risk with your rig considering your knowledge and experience from what you have posted here.
    For what it's worth I have benefited from help on this forum and feel I should be helpful to others in return and in this case it is going to be the people that share the road with you and beg you to take hauling heavy equipment more serious.
     
  11. suladas

    suladas Senior Member

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    The joys of ownership buying from someone who doesn't maintain stuff....

    Yea, I learned my lesson from when my truck and trailer went in in the summer, I was so busy I didn't have time to be on top of them over $9k bill for not much, bill was easily 3k higher then it should have been. That's why this time I am not giving them any slack. I want to know right down to the penny the cost before they touch anything.

    Yea there is so much stuff that should never have even been mentioned. Like who cares if the foot for one jack is bent? It works fine. I could cut both jacks off the trailer and it would pass inspection..... Or the handle for the jack handle missing, that's because they broke it off and it's sitting on the shop floor! Why would I pay to fix something they broke?

    I gave them another chance as the foreman who was there before was fired, didn't get exact answer but I assume many complaints about their shotty work. They are 3/3 for having to bring back everything they have worked on because of a problem of them not doing their work properly.
     
  12. suladas

    suladas Senior Member

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    I am open in that I was trying to do what I needed to get it back on the road to get my hoe moved to the next job, and it was simply too cold after that for me to want to bother, so I took it in expecting there to be some other stuff with the brakes, however there really was nothing, the trailer needs a few minor things but really is "safe" for the road right now based on their list. I know i'm not overly experienced with air brakes, that's why I asked so many questions to absolutely make sure I was confident in what I was doing, and that it was done right. I'm assuming you're referring to the clevis pins being seized, I have looked at them, and I absolutely do not see in anyway how them being seized is negative to anything, other then removing them. It's a fixed pin that holds two items together, nothing else. And really, I am going off of them saying they are seized, and I don't exactly trust their word.

    I read every single reply i've got and take the advice, however there is a few that contradicted others, so I asked follow up questions. I was not ignoring any advice I was given.

    I can assure I do not run anything that is unsafe. I could have caged the brake, put on 2 tires and ran the trailer with a brake not working, but I wanted it to be safe, I guarantee you a decent amount of guys would just do that and run it. In 7 years of driving heavy trucks, I have never failed a roadside inspection, had a ticket, or an accident of any kind.

    As far as the shop, I am tired of mechanics who think it is up to them what is/isn't in the inspection. It's SAFETY, and SAFETY only, if it's not safety it's none of their concern. I do not give a chit if they "think" having a bent jack foot is a problem, it's not safety and i'm not fixing it to pass inspection, I could take the jacks off and it would pass. There is way too much left up to everyone's interpretation and each shop varies way too much (I hear it all the time from others who are tired of it also). A mechanic cannot say oh it looks like you don't maintain stuff, so i'm going to be more picky and call you on stuff that I wouldn't on someone else, that is someone who shouldn't be working on equipment. If it's not safe for one, it's not for another. If it's safe for one, it's safe for another. Now, if there is a company who they let by with safety stuff and it keeps coming back the next year and it's obvious they don't look after stuff, I can see being stricter as far as letting stuff go, that's fine. But trying to make me put a handle on the latch to tilt the deck? Not happening. I will put one on, simply to make it easier to tilt it but out of principle I am not doing it for inspection. I told them very bluntly what I will have them do, what I will do, and if they won't put a sticker on it after that I will pick it up and take it elsewhere for everything.

    I mean in the summer with my other trailer, there was mud flap brackets between the duals, and one was missing so what did they do? They took a grinder to the other side "so they matched". BS like that is what absolutely drives me insane. It never should have happened.

    If I didn't care, I would have taken the trailer to a shop who will pass anything, the shop it's at knows I could go get a sticker without doing anything. But I want a safe trailer. But I also am not going to be gouged and do things that aren't needed, there is a fine line and frankly I wish I could find a shop that knew how to be closer to it.
     
  13. 63 caveman

    63 caveman Well-Known Member

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    Believe me I know what you are talking about when it comes to finding a good shop to deal with. For me I have to "compete" with the the hacks with a new customer (fortunately I don't need them now) and I have to be careful how I go about it.

    When it comes to doing inspections by the book it is a joke. I do it for owner/operators that I know different than some one "off the street". If my sticker gets involved in an accident or even a pissing contest with a DOT inspector it is my license that take a hit as well. I also have to admit that a dry drive line is not part of the inspection but it dose tell me if this rig is properly looked after so I look a little closer at all the other stuff.
     
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  14. suladas

    suladas Senior Member

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    You'd be surprised in how little the hack shops are worried about it. From hearing what they think about it, many have the opinion once it leaves their shop anything could be done to it, therefore they aren't liable, like someone could remove parts after getting it inspected.

    It is really crappy. We've had a truck for about 7-8 years now, and been to 5 different shops for inspections, all are a pain. I chose this one again for trailer because their inspection charge is so much less then others. There is some charging 3 hours labor, on top of 150-300 fee. So I figure, even if they do get me for 2-3 hours labor, at least i'm getting something for it. I would really like to build a relationship with a shop and take it there yearly and not worry about it. And when they see how little it's used, get more flexibility with things.

    A dry drive line makes sense, as it's a clear sign it's not being looked after. But they could have told me I needed to put touch up paint on the trailer and it would be about the same as some of their issues. IMO when some shops are too picky, I think they drive people to the really bad ones who are too lax because they are tired of getting screwed.
     
  15. walkerv

    walkerv Senior Member

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    i know this is a few days old but anti seize is highly not recommended on hub pilot nuts junkyard they say a light oil i use what i have on hand typically 15w40 a couple drops on the stud and one drop into the spinny part of the nut is all i have ever done i know people that have used antisleeze on them with zero problems but still its not recommended , one 2 peice budd nuts im all for anti sieze on those suckers im glad i dont have any of those to work on anymore.
     
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  16. Junkyard

    Junkyard Senior Member

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    I've never heard anybody say not to use anti-seize on hub pilot lug nuts. I suppose there's a logical reason (in somebody's mind) but I can't fathom what it might be. Learn somethin new everyday I suppose.
     
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  17. hvy 1ton

    hvy 1ton Senior Member

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    All i could find is it throws off the torque spec, which is with the stud being lubricated with 30 weight oil. So, when you pull out that 1" torque wrench we all use on tire changes, the clamping force would be under spec compared to oiled threads.
     
  18. Junkyard

    Junkyard Senior Member

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    Well that does seem logical. Although I never torque em. Maybe I should lol. I used to do all my own tires. Now I seldom even pull the wheel and tire off and take it in. I just go to the tire shop and point!
     
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  19. terex herder

    terex herder Well-Known Member

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    TMC recommends against usage of anti-seize. IME, those guys represent companies where the equipment is used daily and traded off when it gets a little age on it. They do not represent the guy with older, light usage equipment such as the original poster. I also have that type of equipment. My trucks are a pita, but I have to have them to get equipment from place to place. So yes, I use anti-seize on my lug nuts, pilots, and about every other fastener. It may be 5 years before it comes off again.
     
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  20. suladas

    suladas Senior Member

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    Well I figured I was done with the brake issues, but guess not. On friday one wheel wasn't turning, pulled over gave the slack adjuster a few taps started turning and everything seemed fine. Loaded up hoe, and kept paying attention tire was spinning and seemed fine. Got a ways and the brake is smoking, at that point i'm in the middle of the city no choice but to take it slow and hope for the best. Did the short job, tried to cage brake but didn't have much luck didn't want to release so was forced to drive with it again. Anyways shop said today that they needed to blow out brake pod and that was the issue? It makes no sense to me, the movement in the pod/slack adjuster matched the one side that works fine. Also pretty pissed that i've only used the trailer 4 times for maybe a total of 200 miles since they worked on it and now I have brand new bearings, seals, drum, shoes, and tires getting burnt up because they screwed up.

    Also it is of my opinion that every single piece on that wheel, seals, bearings, shoes, and drum should be replaced because their life is reduced, the wheels were HOT when I made the first trip, so hot when I left about 5 hours later the hub was still warm and everything was covered in brake dust. I can't see how that wouldn't killing the bearings and that they aren't on borrowed time now. The shop doesn't want to replace any of it. I haven't said it yet, but if they still refuse my counter would be a written guarantee that if that anything on that wheel fails before any other wheel, they fix it for free and cover all towing fees. And that way, if forbid something did happen to that wheel, all the liability falls on them.