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Tracked Undercarriage, High Drive

Discussion in 'Dozers' started by John C., Aug 22, 2019.

  1. nicky 68a

    nicky 68a Senior Member

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    I agree with you both
     
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  2. ih100

    ih100 Senior Member

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    Some early variations of System One had a conventional idler but the problem with the bush seals was there from the beginning. In my experience two things kill S1, wide shoes and sand. They can’t stand the edge of the shoes running on spillage round the blade edge. SALT seems a lot more robust in these conditions, in fact in all conditions.
     
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  3. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    Have seen nothing or heard nothing good of S1, do not understand the value when does not stand up to nearly anything.
     
  4. nicky 68a

    nicky 68a Senior Member

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    Abit of an update for you.
    I've decided on a new set of Cat segments at £940 for both sides.
    They were fitted on Monday morning.
    Finning are giving me some strange prices over the duration of these 2 tractors in the last 3 years.
    It seems,I tend to get approx 25/30% cheaper if I simply ask my chap on the stores counter.He consistently offers me his best price first, whereas my Product support chap seems to struggle and keeps coming up with better offers after consulting his bosses.
    They've also made an error in the pricing up of the pin and bush turn..........It's now a £1000 cheaper.
    None of this caper gives me any confidence in them at all to be honest.
    As for pricing up the ARM tips,I've had no reply yet.
     
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  5. nicky 68a

    nicky 68a Senior Member

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    In saying all that,the product support chap is quick on his replies and service.
    I feel he's been held back somewhat by management into squeezing more coin out of me.
    That's business and fair game,but is slowly driving me elsewhere.
     
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  6. ih100

    ih100 Senior Member

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    I had some work done in Finning track shop a couple of weeks back, they charged £75/hr. I don’t have a problem with that rate but I suspect they padded the hours for the job a bit. Taking two sets of S1 for some new box links this week, it’ll be interesting to see how they charge for this job.
     
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  7. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    The product support people get paid a commission on the sale so the more they charge, the more they make. The parts people are hourly so they don't care. If you have a good parts guy, he will let you know about all the promotions and ways to get a better deal.
     
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  8. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    A good man on a Parts Counter can be worth his weight in gold. Look after him Nicky.
     
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  9. nicky 68a

    nicky 68a Senior Member

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    I've known the gent nearly 30 years on the counter,and we get on very well.He's often pointed out a few things I need that I've forgotten to order.
    This is priceless service,but Finnings are currently driving parts ordering through a parts app to avoid human interaction.
     
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  10. nicky 68a

    nicky 68a Senior Member

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    I've been to the ripper this morning to turn the MST hardox long centerline tip at 52 hours.
    It's certainly going to squeeze another shift out of it.
    Tomorrow,I have an identical Cat long centerline tip to replace it with.
    I've moved to another quarry last Monday which is much harder,yet seems less abrasive to me.No powder sand builds up any where on the machine.
     
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  11. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    Nearly all large HE/Heavy Truck providers are swapping to electronics applications to speed up their end, to seemingly simplify their delivery of products while at the same time reducing the needs of manpower as our Old Friends at these counters retire. Money talks in these conditions, they are no longer quite so concerned of quality of service but quantity. We have to make multiple calls/trips, they only need pull our requests.
     
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  12. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    I suppose part of what you are saying is true but then again why are all the Cat dealers adding personnel to their sales forces? You have the whole goods people getting sales territories split up and new people added to them. Cat forced the dealers to add a boiler room sales force as well to call all customers even if those customers have already been dealing with a regular sales rep. New product support people don't come from the parts department anymore. Most I've had dealings with come from off the street and seem to be selected first by who they know, and second on what they look like. Anyone with industry knowledge gets cycled to the side jobs like administration or gets pushed toward service. Add to that the customer lists or territories are getting cut and most of those guys can barely make a living anymore. Commission sales on small territories encourage dishonesty and little to no knowledge of the product lines mean end users start looking for other companies to supply their needs.

    From my point of view, Caterpillar is trying to move toward direct sales and dropping the dealer networks all together. Want to buy a part, log in and pick what you need, how you want it shipped, the delivery point and now you give them a credit card number. Want to buy a machine, log in and work through a spec log list, work your financing on line, give a delivery location and Big Brother will provide.
     
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  13. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    Not so much around here dealers have standing hiring ads, seems fewer and fewer are even applying even as they do try to split off zones.
     
  14. nicky 68a

    nicky 68a Senior Member

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    I fitted the Cat long centerline ripper tip on this morning.
    I've totalled 61 hours on the identical spec MST Easco tip(including 8 hours on it bring turned around).
    By my reakoning.....At 61 hours and a cost of £82 the MST tip has done well enough.
    The identical Cat tip is £140 and will need to rip for 104 hours to simply break even on cost with the MST tip.
    FYI,the D8 is ripping 2 landfill cells out next to each other.The operator spends a 10.5 hour shift in each cell to allow for differing hardness in the sandstone and to give the test a fair crack of the whip
     
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  15. nicky 68a

    nicky 68a Senior Member

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    Today
     

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  16. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    In my experience the Cat product was a huge waste of money. We were ripping with a Komatsu D375 with a single tooth ripper back in the early nineties and tried different teeth. The Komatsu tooth would go about twelve hours. Next was a Cat long tooth and it was lucky to get four hours of ripping. We made a bet with the Esco rep that if he supplied the quarter shank and guaranteed to at least triple the work life of the Cat tooth we would buy a case of points. If his product didn't hold up he would buy a new quarter shank so we could switch back. The Esco teeth went nearly four times longer and we converted all the rest of the dozers to Esco products. The change to the Esco product changed the operation of drilling and shooting glacial till to just ripping it. That was a trailer load of powder saved each week and the drill and shoot after that was only used for sandstone.
    Maybe the products have changed since then? Let us know what you come up with Nicky.
     
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  17. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    If the tractor is being rented by the customer per operating hour do you need to make any adjustments for differences in downtime necessary to change/turn ripper tips, just in the spirit of keeping the playing field level..?
    The Cat long tip has approx. 10% more wear metal on it than an intermediate length tip.
    I emailed you with ARM photos yesterday. Did you get it.?
    How about some photos of the tips that come off.? It would be interesting to see how worn down they are.
     
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  18. JBGASH

    JBGASH Senior Member

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    John, that was an excellent video and very informative. I will subscribe to your YouTube channel immediately now that I know it is there. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and helping others continually, you are truly a wealth of knowledge.
     
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  19. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

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    Thanks for the kind comments.

    I'm working on putting together another video on the new technology. Caterpillar System One and Komatsu Plus is in the writing stage. I should have it done in a couple of weeks or less.
     
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  20. nicky 68a

    nicky 68a Senior Member

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    John,I'm starting to think you are right in the Cat g.e.t been a waste of money.
     
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