A tower crane went over today in NY, NY while adding more sections to raise it. As I was looking at the news on TV the site looked familuar. Where the crane cabin landed in the only empty lot on that block, I was there on This Monday that just passed looking at the site to bid the rock removal.
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Tower crane accident NY 3/15/08
- Thread starter Nac
- Start date
Squizzy246B
Administrator
digger242j
Administrator
Maybe somebody familiar with tower cranes can comment here.
How many places would such a crane typically be tied to the building, and would the loss of just one allow a catastrophic failure like this?
Uhhh...I'd have thought dropping a piece of steel 19 stories anywhere at all would be a bad thing.... :beatsme
tuney443
Senior Member
Was just reading the Post---says a retired contractor told the NYC Building Dep't. a couple days ago that he knew that crane was not correctly secured to the building.They blew him off and now this happens.Stupid loss of at least 4 lives,probably more still to be found.My Dad used to run cranes in the city--he came home earlier than usual a couple times because the boss told him to make an unsafe pick and he refused.Sounds like there's still stupid ,corruption,or both still rampant in the rotten apple.
AtlasRob
Senior Member
Jacking
I haven't seen any pics, only what I've read via the news link.
When they talk of moving the crane to enable work on another floor, I am thinking that they mean they were jacking it up to put another section in. ( often done at weekend when crane is not required for lifts )
Pretty standard stuff in the UK and I assume ( never assume :Banghead) same world wide, BUT, we have had a spate of tower crane collapses over the past few years and problems seem to occure during this operation.
If they were in the proccess of jacking, then the crane would have been at its most vunerable as its main tower could have had bolts loose or even removed. If something heavy enough to shear a wall anchor got dropped ( as it seems it did ) :thumbdown.
I haven't seen any pics, only what I've read via the news link.
When they talk of moving the crane to enable work on another floor, I am thinking that they mean they were jacking it up to put another section in. ( often done at weekend when crane is not required for lifts )
Pretty standard stuff in the UK and I assume ( never assume :Banghead) same world wide, BUT, we have had a spate of tower crane collapses over the past few years and problems seem to occure during this operation.
If they were in the proccess of jacking, then the crane would have been at its most vunerable as its main tower could have had bolts loose or even removed. If something heavy enough to shear a wall anchor got dropped ( as it seems it did ) :thumbdown.
boomupkelly
New Member
I feel this was a foundation failure ,again.I am looking at getting in to the tower crane world of work and i will get back here soon but i think the city would of had to approve the foundation. :new user
Countryboy
Senior Member
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Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums boomupkelly! :drinkup
boomupkelly
New Member
i am aware the top collar fell,(straps broke) and took other 2 out,but,most cranes have a large cement footer maybe 30by30by5foot,this crane weighs 150 ton.i thought collars were for added stability,not only stability.
AtlasRob
Senior Member
inspection?
First, havin re read this,:umno I apologise to Nac, who states in the original post that they were in fact jacking to fit another section :notworthy
As to the size of the base :beatsme way out of my field I'm afraid, but must have been to an accepted design :cool2
I would love to know who was in charge of the daily inspection of the lifting gear ( UK specification ) as it would seem to me he / she has a major question to answer. I wont make any smart comments about it being OK for one more lift, we will replace it on Monday when the stores reopen.
by me. ( haven't sussed how to enter different quotes in same post)
If they were in the proccess of jacking, then the crane would have been at its most vunerable as its main tower could have had bolts loose or even removed. If something heavy enough to shear a wall anchor got dropped ( as it seems it did )
What do you call the top collar? are you refering to the next wall tie?
First, havin re read this,:umno I apologise to Nac, who states in the original post that they were in fact jacking to fit another section :notworthy
As to the size of the base :beatsme way out of my field I'm afraid, but must have been to an accepted design :cool2
I would love to know who was in charge of the daily inspection of the lifting gear ( UK specification ) as it would seem to me he / she has a major question to answer. I wont make any smart comments about it being OK for one more lift, we will replace it on Monday when the stores reopen.
by me. ( haven't sussed how to enter different quotes in same post)
If they were in the proccess of jacking, then the crane would have been at its most vunerable as its main tower could have had bolts loose or even removed. If something heavy enough to shear a wall anchor got dropped ( as it seems it did )
What do you call the top collar? are you refering to the next wall tie?
Last edited:
Billy D7 4T
New Member
Cranes & Derricks in NYC
Too early to determine what the actual cause is, only can speculate as to what happened, could have been as simple as the rigging used to secure the collar failing and then the domino effect after.
I've read here on/off, have a heavy commercial construction background, most of it working in Manhattan and other borroughs in addition to having been an equipment operator in NJ prior to that. I was at the senior project manager level when I left the business, having worked my way up the ranks from the bottom.
Maybe you are familiar with the procedures in NYC for crane installations , but I can shed some light on this if not. I have done quite a bit of work with cranes, mostly hydraulic rough terrain types up to 300 ton, have been on 2 sites with Cranes Inc big 500 ton hyd, + some crawlers on derricks and tower cranes on several other sites.
Typically, a project manager representing either the sub contractor, like the steel erector or concrete sub, will size up and own the crane for the job. Sometimes the Const Mgr./General Contractor does it, depends on how the job is set up but can be a real pain when you have to schedule picks from a crane that is provided by the CM/GC or a sub. NO matter who does it, they have to use a licensed professional engineer to design the installation and confirm the size and configuration, and in this case, I do know the particular designer of this installation quite well, as well as the outfit that leased the crane who were also always a pleasure to deal with in my experience having done numerous installations in the past with both. There were only a few people in NYC that did the "expediting" or crane permit filings with the city agencies, specializing in this area and maintaining contacts, kind of niche business in that respect.
The licensed professional engineer in this case, would have filed an application with the City of New York Dept. of Buildings, and City of NY D.O.T. for approval by their plan examiners The permit is issued and the associated paper work is copied to all appropriate parties including the operating engineer on the crane. The city does not like hydraulic cranes placed on the streets, like the mobile rough terrain types, and are hesitant to approve them for use and issue permits in many situations, they have to close lanes for the outriggers, restrict traffic, pedestrians, there are just a myriad of reasons why, some including safety as well as previous accidents. They seem to prefer a crane installation to be within the footprint of the building or within the sites work limits, inside the fence, so a tower crane would usually be more easily approved, as it is close to or within the new buildings footprint, no impact to traffic, still have to flag and stop pedestrians if hoisting over a walkway even if it has a sidewalk bridge protective structure installed over the walkway.
Cranes & Derricks may elect to inspect and do show up to inspect an installation, with hydraulic types placed on the street, outrigger dunnage is a big item to inspect. The operator will also review the drawings and technical information to make sure everything is in order, have to remember these guys do not appreciate putting their city of new york crane licenses and other certifications at risk, all the operators I've had on my payroll were copied on the information as soon as the crane arrived, or they arrived on site for the installation. None that I have known would take chances there for any reason. There is a catch to this, they certainly can't see the condition of the rigging being used when in the house above, and if someone uses something compromised, the operator just won't be able to see it from one of these rigs, they rely on and trust the people below doing the rigging. I have seen many times where things that were rigged, were very risky and needed to be corrected. Slings, choker cables, etc. have to be in 100% condition, yet a contractor will use these items if well worn as I have often seen unless someone stops them.
I think it is important to realize that the operator of this crane along with his riggers would have been familiar, or should have been familiar with the details of the installation, per the drawings created by the engineer, and approved by the city agencies, it is hard to believe that either the operator, riggers and the engineer who designed the installation would have missed an important detail like improper or missing connections to the superstructure, or that the crane was installed with deficient connections to the building violating the drawings, this engineer would have inspected all of this on site, he is a very hands on, field orientated person, as are his people. I don't see that happening, unless someone did something unbeknownst, but even the operator should have been attentive to something like this if it were to occur.
The seemingly dumbest things can and will occur, in early Sept. '99, the hurricane Floyd came through the city, on Sixth avenue, 23rd-26th I forget now, but Turner was doing a typical reinforced concrete, 30 story job, where they had a 777 or 4100 Manitowoc crawler on a derrick, tower type mast with luffing jib, (terminology is getting rusty for, may need correction), to make the reach needed, building was close to or topped off. They folded up the crane and secured it, the storm passed, the operator ended up trying to unfold the boom/luffing jib, with the restraints still in place, it pulled the entire tower/mast & boom over backwards, I heard the crash from my job site and ran over a few blocks, it killed a local 608 carpenter. They lashed it down, but never heard as to why they were not released before he powered up, or what happened, seemed foolish, but hard to say without being involved.
Every installation in the city is probably going to be heavily scrutinized now. I also think after the investigation, the procedures for erecting, climbing and rigging this type of crane will be reviewed. There also master rigger licenses granted to people who have to pass a detailed test, NYC is extremely stringent on these things, crane installations and rigging are taken very seriously, D.O.B. cranes and derricks, D.O.T. and the B.E.S.T. squad are the leading agencies for safety. This is a typical reinforced concrete residential structure going up, tower is on a foundation and tied off the to the building. The risk when climbing and adding sections, is certainly dependent on the rigging holding the collar, and there was no back up for what occured. I'm curious about the foundation, but obviously this design was not for a stand alone configuration or it too was compromised by what occured. Under the streets or below grade you can have all kinds of conflicts and things to deal with, if you are close to a subway, you may also need MTA and Port Authority approvals, so maybe a deep foundation for the crane was not possible here and it relied more on the building's superstructure, lot of possibilities to consider in the design, working in Manhattan can be full of challenges to say the least. 12,000 lbs. falling from 10-20 stories could have not only sheared the connections to the building, but also destroyed the foundation and connections even if it was strong enough for stand alone at the height it was. Most of these are stand alone until the building reaches some height then they attach to the building, might have been engineered like that, after a certain tower height, there will be enough superstructure erected, with 28 days allowed for the concrete to cure allowing for connections to the tower to be made that would allow it's height to be then raised. We worked with one set up on cantilevered dunnage beams off the 10th floor of a bldg., in '03 at 640 5th avenue across from St Patricks cathedral, that was a real unique set up, have a few photos of that one.
I think that an alternate detail for installing additional temporary connections to the tower from the superstructure, which would keep the tower from moving or falling in the event the rigging failed on a pick like this while raising the tower to a new height and installing the required collars, will be considered for a requirement. The back up connections for tying back the tower would have to be pre-coordinated into the structural design of the building, and allow for no conflicts with the tower raising and other procedures. It is evident that there is no back up or secondary connections used currently after seeing an event like this, very possible for some manatory changes in procedures, structural design, approval and inspection, of this kind of equipment by city agencies.
One thing about NYC projects, all have compressed schedules and are run by super motivated project managers, executives, and unrelenting owners who just keep upping the anty with pushing these compressed schedules, things get too tight and they push and push production to the max at all times. Usually don't like interupting that 3 day per floor cycle on these concrete jobs. This high paced environment can be a breeding ground for safety issues, they had a lot of unrelated violations already, but are typical for this type of job. Even with that in mind, the crane installation should not have violated the design by the engineer and what was approved on the permit. I strongly suspect the rigging used and procedures followed during the pick will be the focus of the investigation.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/17/n...1221364800&WT.srch=1&excamp=GGGNcranecollapse
Too early to determine what the actual cause is, only can speculate as to what happened, could have been as simple as the rigging used to secure the collar failing and then the domino effect after.
I've read here on/off, have a heavy commercial construction background, most of it working in Manhattan and other borroughs in addition to having been an equipment operator in NJ prior to that. I was at the senior project manager level when I left the business, having worked my way up the ranks from the bottom.
Maybe you are familiar with the procedures in NYC for crane installations , but I can shed some light on this if not. I have done quite a bit of work with cranes, mostly hydraulic rough terrain types up to 300 ton, have been on 2 sites with Cranes Inc big 500 ton hyd, + some crawlers on derricks and tower cranes on several other sites.
Typically, a project manager representing either the sub contractor, like the steel erector or concrete sub, will size up and own the crane for the job. Sometimes the Const Mgr./General Contractor does it, depends on how the job is set up but can be a real pain when you have to schedule picks from a crane that is provided by the CM/GC or a sub. NO matter who does it, they have to use a licensed professional engineer to design the installation and confirm the size and configuration, and in this case, I do know the particular designer of this installation quite well, as well as the outfit that leased the crane who were also always a pleasure to deal with in my experience having done numerous installations in the past with both. There were only a few people in NYC that did the "expediting" or crane permit filings with the city agencies, specializing in this area and maintaining contacts, kind of niche business in that respect.
The licensed professional engineer in this case, would have filed an application with the City of New York Dept. of Buildings, and City of NY D.O.T. for approval by their plan examiners The permit is issued and the associated paper work is copied to all appropriate parties including the operating engineer on the crane. The city does not like hydraulic cranes placed on the streets, like the mobile rough terrain types, and are hesitant to approve them for use and issue permits in many situations, they have to close lanes for the outriggers, restrict traffic, pedestrians, there are just a myriad of reasons why, some including safety as well as previous accidents. They seem to prefer a crane installation to be within the footprint of the building or within the sites work limits, inside the fence, so a tower crane would usually be more easily approved, as it is close to or within the new buildings footprint, no impact to traffic, still have to flag and stop pedestrians if hoisting over a walkway even if it has a sidewalk bridge protective structure installed over the walkway.
Cranes & Derricks may elect to inspect and do show up to inspect an installation, with hydraulic types placed on the street, outrigger dunnage is a big item to inspect. The operator will also review the drawings and technical information to make sure everything is in order, have to remember these guys do not appreciate putting their city of new york crane licenses and other certifications at risk, all the operators I've had on my payroll were copied on the information as soon as the crane arrived, or they arrived on site for the installation. None that I have known would take chances there for any reason. There is a catch to this, they certainly can't see the condition of the rigging being used when in the house above, and if someone uses something compromised, the operator just won't be able to see it from one of these rigs, they rely on and trust the people below doing the rigging. I have seen many times where things that were rigged, were very risky and needed to be corrected. Slings, choker cables, etc. have to be in 100% condition, yet a contractor will use these items if well worn as I have often seen unless someone stops them.
I think it is important to realize that the operator of this crane along with his riggers would have been familiar, or should have been familiar with the details of the installation, per the drawings created by the engineer, and approved by the city agencies, it is hard to believe that either the operator, riggers and the engineer who designed the installation would have missed an important detail like improper or missing connections to the superstructure, or that the crane was installed with deficient connections to the building violating the drawings, this engineer would have inspected all of this on site, he is a very hands on, field orientated person, as are his people. I don't see that happening, unless someone did something unbeknownst, but even the operator should have been attentive to something like this if it were to occur.
The seemingly dumbest things can and will occur, in early Sept. '99, the hurricane Floyd came through the city, on Sixth avenue, 23rd-26th I forget now, but Turner was doing a typical reinforced concrete, 30 story job, where they had a 777 or 4100 Manitowoc crawler on a derrick, tower type mast with luffing jib, (terminology is getting rusty for, may need correction), to make the reach needed, building was close to or topped off. They folded up the crane and secured it, the storm passed, the operator ended up trying to unfold the boom/luffing jib, with the restraints still in place, it pulled the entire tower/mast & boom over backwards, I heard the crash from my job site and ran over a few blocks, it killed a local 608 carpenter. They lashed it down, but never heard as to why they were not released before he powered up, or what happened, seemed foolish, but hard to say without being involved.
Every installation in the city is probably going to be heavily scrutinized now. I also think after the investigation, the procedures for erecting, climbing and rigging this type of crane will be reviewed. There also master rigger licenses granted to people who have to pass a detailed test, NYC is extremely stringent on these things, crane installations and rigging are taken very seriously, D.O.B. cranes and derricks, D.O.T. and the B.E.S.T. squad are the leading agencies for safety. This is a typical reinforced concrete residential structure going up, tower is on a foundation and tied off the to the building. The risk when climbing and adding sections, is certainly dependent on the rigging holding the collar, and there was no back up for what occured. I'm curious about the foundation, but obviously this design was not for a stand alone configuration or it too was compromised by what occured. Under the streets or below grade you can have all kinds of conflicts and things to deal with, if you are close to a subway, you may also need MTA and Port Authority approvals, so maybe a deep foundation for the crane was not possible here and it relied more on the building's superstructure, lot of possibilities to consider in the design, working in Manhattan can be full of challenges to say the least. 12,000 lbs. falling from 10-20 stories could have not only sheared the connections to the building, but also destroyed the foundation and connections even if it was strong enough for stand alone at the height it was. Most of these are stand alone until the building reaches some height then they attach to the building, might have been engineered like that, after a certain tower height, there will be enough superstructure erected, with 28 days allowed for the concrete to cure allowing for connections to the tower to be made that would allow it's height to be then raised. We worked with one set up on cantilevered dunnage beams off the 10th floor of a bldg., in '03 at 640 5th avenue across from St Patricks cathedral, that was a real unique set up, have a few photos of that one.
I think that an alternate detail for installing additional temporary connections to the tower from the superstructure, which would keep the tower from moving or falling in the event the rigging failed on a pick like this while raising the tower to a new height and installing the required collars, will be considered for a requirement. The back up connections for tying back the tower would have to be pre-coordinated into the structural design of the building, and allow for no conflicts with the tower raising and other procedures. It is evident that there is no back up or secondary connections used currently after seeing an event like this, very possible for some manatory changes in procedures, structural design, approval and inspection, of this kind of equipment by city agencies.
One thing about NYC projects, all have compressed schedules and are run by super motivated project managers, executives, and unrelenting owners who just keep upping the anty with pushing these compressed schedules, things get too tight and they push and push production to the max at all times. Usually don't like interupting that 3 day per floor cycle on these concrete jobs. This high paced environment can be a breeding ground for safety issues, they had a lot of unrelated violations already, but are typical for this type of job. Even with that in mind, the crane installation should not have violated the design by the engineer and what was approved on the permit. I strongly suspect the rigging used and procedures followed during the pick will be the focus of the investigation.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/17/n...1221364800&WT.srch=1&excamp=GGGNcranecollapse
Countryboy
Senior Member
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- 3,276
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- Georgia
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- Load Out Tech. / Heavy Equipment Operator / Locomo
Countryboy
Senior Member
- Joined
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Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums Billy D7 4T! :drinkup
There was a report on the news tonight that the City inspector assigned to this crane has been arrested for falsifying records. A complaint had been filed by a citizen a few days earlier who noticed bolts missing from the base of the crane. The inspector apparently signed off on the crane without actually having visited the site and making the inspection.
There was no mention of whether these missing bolts would have had anything to do with the accident.
There was no mention of whether these missing bolts would have had anything to do with the accident.
Cat420
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Billy D7 4T
New Member
City of NY D.O.B. people
There are some seemingly strange people in City of New York D.O.B., some of the inspectors I've had were nothing less than bizarre, some try to intimidate, others just a little odd, one plumbing inspector who did a rough in under the slab inspection before a concrete pour was a also a self proclaimed self healer with published books, he was more interested talking about things like how to cure Lyme disease by injecting doses of ones urine. Well, a little strange, but very friendly guy, we passed the inspection, never forgot that guy, and a few others from that department. I really enjoyed the tough guy image projecting, badge waving irishman who demanded to see the stamped, perforated approved d.o.b. drawings during the excavation foundation work phase on the same job, he demanded they be kept on site in the hole per Code requirements, and you do have to have this original set on site by code, somewhere, but you don't want lose or let this set get damaged for any reasonm they should be kept locked up, work off of duplicates. My office was right across the street, he still wrote us a violation, he's barking at me to come up out of the hole, I made him wait as I was busy, like who the heck are you, and where am I supposed to keep this original set, in a weatherproof, watertight gangbox with your lock on it, we're not even out of the hole yet, across the street was not good enough, never forgot him and he showed up again at the end for final cert. of occupancy inspections, was much more polite and easy to work with, maybe standing up to him worked, never was much for people like that and would tell them to pound salt, badge or no badge.
http://users.erols.com/martinlara/
Cranes & Derricks people were usually serious, if this guy rubber stamped an inspection like that, hard to believe, what a jerk, there has been a lot of corruption in the past. I was always warned these inspectors can and will be wired, they cleaned house in the past and if you are dumb enough to try and buy one of them, sooner or later, one of the bad ones caught already and has agreed to be wired may come your way and you will go down.
There are a lot of people in NYC that are activists for all kinds of things, you damage a tree they'll chase you down, call the parks dept police, many times there are former construction trades, familiar with things like tower cranes, job safety and they will file complaints, it's probably what generated an order to inspect the crane on site, all he had to do is show up, look at the approved permit with drawings, check the details on site and make sure they match what is on the drawing, probably a friday and wanted to leave early, rubber stamped it.
There are some seemingly strange people in City of New York D.O.B., some of the inspectors I've had were nothing less than bizarre, some try to intimidate, others just a little odd, one plumbing inspector who did a rough in under the slab inspection before a concrete pour was a also a self proclaimed self healer with published books, he was more interested talking about things like how to cure Lyme disease by injecting doses of ones urine. Well, a little strange, but very friendly guy, we passed the inspection, never forgot that guy, and a few others from that department. I really enjoyed the tough guy image projecting, badge waving irishman who demanded to see the stamped, perforated approved d.o.b. drawings during the excavation foundation work phase on the same job, he demanded they be kept on site in the hole per Code requirements, and you do have to have this original set on site by code, somewhere, but you don't want lose or let this set get damaged for any reasonm they should be kept locked up, work off of duplicates. My office was right across the street, he still wrote us a violation, he's barking at me to come up out of the hole, I made him wait as I was busy, like who the heck are you, and where am I supposed to keep this original set, in a weatherproof, watertight gangbox with your lock on it, we're not even out of the hole yet, across the street was not good enough, never forgot him and he showed up again at the end for final cert. of occupancy inspections, was much more polite and easy to work with, maybe standing up to him worked, never was much for people like that and would tell them to pound salt, badge or no badge.
http://users.erols.com/martinlara/
Cranes & Derricks people were usually serious, if this guy rubber stamped an inspection like that, hard to believe, what a jerk, there has been a lot of corruption in the past. I was always warned these inspectors can and will be wired, they cleaned house in the past and if you are dumb enough to try and buy one of them, sooner or later, one of the bad ones caught already and has agreed to be wired may come your way and you will go down.
There are a lot of people in NYC that are activists for all kinds of things, you damage a tree they'll chase you down, call the parks dept police, many times there are former construction trades, familiar with things like tower cranes, job safety and they will file complaints, it's probably what generated an order to inspect the crane on site, all he had to do is show up, look at the approved permit with drawings, check the details on site and make sure they match what is on the drawing, probably a friday and wanted to leave early, rubber stamped it.
AtlasRob
Senior Member
quotes
Thanks for the link Countryboy, I'll have a play in the test are.
Thanks for the link Countryboy, I'll have a play in the test are.
Found two interesting articles on ENR about this accident:
Crane Collapse
Crane Examiner Charged
Sounds like the examiner didn't have anything to do really with the collapse (I think. They are still busting him which is good IMO).
Appears that they were getting ready to add another brace to the structure and the collar that attaches the brace to the crane fell and that took out the lower braces. Interesting.
Crane Collapse
Crane Examiner Charged
Sounds like the examiner didn't have anything to do really with the collapse (I think. They are still busting him which is good IMO).
Appears that they were getting ready to add another brace to the structure and the collar that attaches the brace to the crane fell and that took out the lower braces. Interesting.