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Total truck rebuild.

farmerlund

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Nov 22, 2014
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I was reading a tread in the dozer section about cats certified rebuild. does any one do this same type of thing for Kenworth or peterbuilt trucks? I know there are glider kits available, but if a guy had a decent 10-20yr old truck, would be interesting. With all the emissions junk may be a good way to get a nice truck. I have done some rebuilding on my own but never on the whole thing a once.

Would be cool to get "new" 15yr old truck. or maybe I am dreaming.:cool2
 

Wes J

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Jan 24, 2016
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Peoria, IL
I think the economies of scale are much different. It makes a lot of sense to totally rebuilt a $1 million + machine that makes piles of money. I don't think the same thing could be said for a bog standard class 8 truck made in the hundreds of thousands. The only people with that kind of money to waste is the military.

You could certainly have your engine, transmission, rear ends, suspension, king pins, fifth wheel, and steering rebuilt. You could paint the truck and replace most of the interior. However, I'd wager that would cost at least $50,000. For that kind of money, you could just buy a much newer and lower mile truck.

The only way it could work is if you could do the work yourself.
 

ohiofleet

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Nov 24, 2011
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dayton ohio
yes there is a company around here that does it I know a guy just got his 99 pete done every thing but the motor cost him 50
 

Shimmy1

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Trucks are "easy". LOL. Lots of hard work and elbow grease. Oh yeah, one other thing. MONEY. All jokes aside, a lot of truckers would still be in business if they'd have bought a 2000 model truck and rebuilt it instead of a 2009 and went broke while it was in the shop.
 

lantraxco

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The frame rails and cross members get tired from metal fatigue, the cab and hood get tired also. Basically a glider is the best of both worlds.

If you have any older engines you want to keep using, glider them soon, the EPA is looking into "abuse" of the glider idea, they may pass regs requiring you to step up to a certain Tier level in order to buy a kit. Asshats.
 

farmerlund

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Nov 22, 2014
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You could certainly have your engine, transmission, rear ends, suspension, king pins, fifth wheel, and steering rebuilt. You could paint the truck and replace most of the interior. However, I'd wager that would cost at least $50,000. For that kind of money, you could just buy a much newer and lower mile truck.

My thought was I don't want a newer than 2005 truck. Have some now and its always emissions that is acting up. DEF is better but still stupid. For myself I don't think $50k would be out of line. A new KW is $140k or so.

I do get what Lantrax said about frames and cabs. The condition of the truck being redone would be important.
 

Birken Vogt

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Nov 30, 2003
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5,305
Location
Grass Valley, Ca
All jokes aside, a lot of truckers would still be in business if they'd have bought a 2000 model truck and rebuilt it instead of a 2009 and went broke while it was in the shop.

I remember thinking in the early 2000s to myself that "we are living in the good ole days" because the diesel engines were for the most part very good.

Then came EGR in Oct 2002 as an EPA punishment and I was glad we did not have to have any.

But the garbage these days makes me wish EGR was all it was, and I am glad I am out of trucks although it is starting to hit me in stationary now also.
 

Fastdirt

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Sep 16, 2010
Messages
743
Location
GA
I'm basically doing a build your own glider right now and I'm on the last leg of it but it's a mother of a job and I wouldn't recommend it to anybody who doesn't employ a mechanic or hire one. Seems if you have the money you should just pay somebody to do it. Blew by 50k a long long time ago....but then again they sell for $180,000 new. However when It's done it will be priceless to me. My truck was a good clean southern truck to start with but I've done it all. New cab mounts, engine, trans, drive shaft, motor mounts, radiator, new heavy pin front axle, interior, windows, exterior, wheels, bearings, tires, brakes, hub seals, shocks, rear bushings, etc. etc. I too believe the EPA is knocking down the doors of the emission free builds. They had Pittsburgh Power put their power boxes on hold. Just a matter of time.

I got impatient and almost bought a 2009 Pete last week but then smacked myself on the head. I've learned when it comes to class 8 trucks there are no deals. You just have to fork out the money or sacrifice specs, mileage, wear, comfort, style, etc. Mainly wear. Lot's of great trucks that are near worn out.

A Cat C15 6NZ long block will set you back around $20k and a complete one around $40k....then on and on and on. These local hauling companies around here are obviously making it happen with brand new trucks because many of them have tons of $150k trucks all over town. I'm talking 30, 50, 80 count fleets etc. One major company does 2 year leases on the entire fleet of 30 trucks. They have warranty and only hang around two years. They probably don't have too many issues and then they have so much pull they can have trucks replaced if lemons.

Just no easy way. A friend just got a nice used Pete dump truck....then the motor blew up after a month. Ouch.
 

JDOFMEMI

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Jan 3, 2007
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SoCal
Fastdirt

Good to see you posting. Any updates on your build?

I may end up doing a semi-rebuild when I can afford it. My 2000 KW T-800 heavy haul is no good in the Socialist Republic of Kalifornia, so I now have a new to me used truck, and the 2013 Pete I stepped into at a great cost is probably not anywhere near as good of a truck as my KW, but it is "compliant", a word CARB officials made sure I understood after my audit and fines for BS paperwork violations.

I am looking for opportunities to get at least partially out of CA, and if I can, the old truck will get refurbished, though maybe not to the level that Fastdirt's Pete is getting. I will be looking for a stealth supplier for the power my truck used to have. When I bought it, it was juiced, though I don't know by how much. I did not even know it was until after some service work at the dealer it came back a dog, and upon asking found out it was returned to stock programming.
My fuel mileage dropped from 6.5 to 5, and while I used to pull a 6% grade at 55 with a D-8R, now it does the same hill at 30. Step forward to a 2013 truck with a 600 Cummins, and now my mileage driving it the same is below 4, and the power is no better than the neutered Cat 550, plus I have to smell the stench and feel the heat from the fire waiting for a place to happen, AKA the exhaust filter, along with the hassle of the DEF fluid.
 

hetkind

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Nov 3, 2015
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472
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Unicoi, TN
I think the economies of scale are much different. It makes a lot of sense to totally rebuilt a $1 million + machine that makes piles of money. I don't think the same thing could be said for a bog standard class 8 truck made in the hundreds of thousands. The only people with that kind of money to waste is the military.

The military runs their own rebuild lines at various Army Depots, like Red River Army Depot in Texarkana. They need to keep their trucks a LONG time in good shape since the have so much invested in training, parts and the biggest thing, mission and configuration management. And if you think they spend good money rebuilding AM General and Oshkosh trucks, spend some time on a heavy aircraft rebuild line. They are still flying aircraft built between 1950 and 1965 like the P3, K135, B52 and the C5 on 24 hour mission on a daily/weekly basis. Some from that era, like the C130 are still in NEW production 50 years later. The original Blackhawks fielded in the late 1970's have gone through several depot level rebuild cycles and are still flying with the original airframes and the majority of the sheet metal.

And I am spending 15k on my JD 450B for a new undercarriage and steering clutches. I expect to get another 20 years out of it.

I don't expect forced retirement of off the road equipment for emissions anytime soon. As long as the engine is period to the chassis, the requirements go by chassis year.

Personally, I think the class 8 truck manufactures were behind the 8 ball in designing low emission engines. If we look at the automotive market, it took leaders like Honda, who developed the CVCC engine back in the early 1970's to change the mind set of the American automakers who kept bolting on power robbing and hard to maintain external emission controls. If they had started designing new series engines back in the late 1960's instead of investing into high performance muscle cars, the Japanese would have never got their foot in the door when the 1973 oil shock occurred.

Howard
 

Andrew_D

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Oct 20, 2012
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298
Location
Newdale, Manitoba, Canada
yes there is a company around here that does it I know a guy just got his 99 pete done every thing but the motor cost him 50

Yeah, I can see being $50k. When I looked into it a few years ago, it was going to be $70-80k including the engine.

My understanding with the gliders is that if you want to buy a glider and get a junkyard engine to rebuild - that's where the problems come up because you have a new serial number from the glider frame but an older engine. If you have title to an older truck (and especially if you can show that you owned it for a while) and want to put that engine in a glider and transfer the serial number, then you run into a lot less issues since your serial number is older. This is what gliders were originally meant to be for. Just what I've been told - maybe it's crap??

Andrew
 
Last edited:

Fastdirt

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Yeah, I can see being $50k. When I looked into it a few years ago, it was going to be $70-80k including the engine.

My understanding with the gliders is that if you want to buy a glider and get a junkyard engine to rebuild - that's where the problems come up because you have a new serial number from the glider frame but an older engine. If you have title to an older truck (and especially if you can show that you owned it for a while) and want to put that engine in a glider and transfer the serial number, then you run into a lot less issues since your serial number is older. This is what gliders were originally meant to be for. Just what I've been told - maybe it's crap??

Andrew

Didn't think about that. The C15 crate motor I bought does not have a serial number. I just use a similar serial number for ordering/buying parts.
 

Willie B

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Mount Tabor VT
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I'll turn sixty this year. Most of my life I've wondered what's a glider? I'll admit it now, I was absent the day they taught this stuff, or I was asleep. What's a glider?
 

RZucker

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I'll turn sixty this year. Most of my life I've wondered what's a glider? I'll admit it now, I was absent the day they taught this stuff, or I was asleep. What's a glider?

Usually a glider is a complete new truck, minus engine, trans, and rear suspension. The idea was to recycle your older components and build a "new" truck. Not a bad idea, rattled out cabs and butchered wiring are the stuff that drives me nuts on older trucks.
 

Andrew_D

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Oct 20, 2012
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Newdale, Manitoba, Canada
I'll turn sixty this year. Most of my life I've wondered what's a glider? I'll admit it now, I was absent the day they taught this stuff, or I was asleep. What's a glider?

Usually a glider is a complete new truck, minus engine, trans, and rear suspension. The idea was to recycle your older components and build a "new" truck. Not a bad idea, rattled out cabs and butchered wiring are the stuff that drives me nuts on older trucks.

I thought a glider needed to be ordered with one of the driveline components? Usually that will be rear ends. Maybe they changed the rules?

Andrew
 

RZucker

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I thought a glider needed to be ordered with one of the driveline components? Usually that will be rear ends. Maybe they changed the rules?

Andrew

It's been 25 years, but I recall seeing gliders at the Peterbilt dealership in Spokane Wa. with bare frames on the rear sitting on heavy duty sawhorses. At the time they had 5 of them for a local customer. All identical with radiators and engine mounts ready to drop in the powertrain, rear suspension was drill and bolt from the donor trucks.
 

lantraxco

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Yep, when I worked at Portland Freightliner that was the deal, reuse all the major rebuildable components, engine, transmission(s), drive axles and suspension. YMMV.
 

Truck Shop

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Where I work we have 22 Freightliner gliders, Coronado's. They come with 2004 DDEC4 Detroits, 550Hp, 1850 torque. They come with everything but
transmissions, drive lines, rear housings and final drives. They come with rear air ride suspension, hangers mounted. They have to have at least two
major drive components missing to classify as a glider. The engines are Detroit factory recons with 300k warranty. We used Weller trans and rear
drives. E404's and R145's- with RTLO18913A's, and we supplied the clutch's also 208925-25 2050FTLB torque. Cost was $28,000 less. The PacCar's were
a lot more if I remember right. There 2011 models. And worked out to be good trucks. Ratio's 3:70-3:73

Another company here bought three day cab SD Coronado's with the same spec's for pulling A-train grain trailers. Good trucks also.

Truck Shop
 

farmerlund

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North Dakota
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Farmer/ excavator
I am starting to like the glider idea. Does anyone have a rough estimate what a KW t800 with only complete cab, hood, front axle, frame, fuel tanks and all electrical wiring needed? I know there are hundred's of options or ways to configure a truck.

Do you have to use rear ends with ABS brakes? Are they engine specific? If using a electronic one.

Steve
 

Truck Shop

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It would come wired for a specific engine, And yes it will have ABS. ABS will be rigged for one drive axle and it is just a mount for the sensor at the
axle stub for the tone ring on the hub to read off of. You can add those to any housing. As far as cost your better off to check with several KW dealers.

Truck Shop
 
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