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Tilt and Lift not working on Bobcat 863

Discussion in 'Skid Steers' started by Axel, Dec 21, 2014.

  1. Axel

    Axel Well-Known Member

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    Hi,
    The Bobcat in question is an 863F manufactured in December 1998.
    It has about 2,400 hours.

    Today after warming it up for about 10 minutes in 29°F I began by removing the bucket to attach a tree boom.
    Before I could hook up the boom, the tilt and lift stopped working.
    I turned the engine off.

    5 Minutes later I started it up again and the tilt and lift functions worked again, for about 20 seconds.
    turned it off again and checked battery connection.
    (installed brand new battery two weeks ago when the weather got cold because it was too weak to start the machine)
    Checked the BICS fuse near the timing belt cover, looks fine.
    Installed new timing belt about 1 week ago, before this I avoided using the machine for a while, maybe something happened when I was moving the cable and fuses out of the way of timing belt installation?

    Started the machine and same thing happened in less than 1 minute.
    No tilt or lift, BICS valve lock (light off), moves forward, backward, and turns fine.

    turned the engine off, started it up and everything worked great until I parked it.
    except the temp gauge which has not worked for the few months I've owned it(hoping to get that working ASAP)

    Any ideas?

    Btw, Today was the first time I attempted to actually use the machine since installing the new timing belt, it starts and runs unbelievably better even though the old belt looked fine. now that I'm writing this, i'm thinking that maybe I accidentally did something during install...
     
  2. bobcan

    bobcan Well-Known Member

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    Well, I have similar issue (and Errors) with my T190 _ it has ACS controls and the Tilt Actuator was giving an error and 'locking up' both Lift and Tilt _ unfortunately I am 2hrs away from the machine and my Service Manual, but someone will likely come along here to ask: "Are there any CODES being shown" when the system quits..??

    Mine was showing something like a M32-37 Code but forget ** was definitely Tilt Actuator, and I re-calibrated it with the series of Buttons/ BICS enable-disable/ Hand Control motions that are in the Service Manual.. Proper and more SURE way is likely with a Service PC but I am not that lucky!! Has been GOOD for 10-12 hrs since though, so I must assume that I am lucky, or just deserve a $700 break that way.. Ha!!
     
  3. Axel

    Axel Well-Known Member

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    I probably should have mentioned that mine has the ACS controls.

    However it is an F-series and so the instruments are analog(no codes).
    The BICS is probably the most advanced electronics component in the whole machine?

    maybe disconnecting the old battery and installing a new one has created the need to recalibrating the tilt actuator?
    how would I do that on this machine?
     
  4. bobcan

    bobcan Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmm.. from what I have learned, I cannot see the interaction/reaction between Battery Replacement an Actuator, BUT never know I guess!! And, I would suggest a Service Manual for ANY and ALL people who can 'wrench a bit' and want to/ need to save some $$ _ FULL of Good Info and our Farm always purchases them for our machines of all types and sizes _ that being said, I have NO idea where to point you to re-calibrate (but likely is similar to ours which has Keyless/ Upgraded Panel) as this T190 is our first Bobcat here, and only have had it for a few months!! Hopefully the Smart and Helpful Folks will pop up here soon to assist you _

    I am just a dumb farmer, and 100 miles from a Bobcat Dealer, and know enough to be dangerous with some information and decent tools _ and I have an Electronics background too, so not too many things freak me out that way on the machine, and I can get my way around a schematic pretty well to troubleshoot.. Usually..
     
  5. rmllarue91

    rmllarue91 Senior Member

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    Hey axel I think left joy stick has two small green led lights that give a combination of flashes to signal different codes. Hopefully some of the experienced bobcat guys can help. Your going to need a wiring diagram and a dvom multimeter and a little guidance you should beable to resolve problem
     
  6. Axel

    Axel Well-Known Member

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    I hoped someone had a nice conclusive answer to this problem before my dive into the 550 pages of the Bobcat 863 service manual(serial number 514425001 & above).

    so, I've found the pages about Actuators but nothing yet about recalibrating them...
     
  7. rmllarue91

    rmllarue91 Senior Member

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    Haha I hear you about service manuals but knowledge is power I have Lil experience with these but I like to think of bics as the middle component it receives input sends it to main controller then that sends signal back to bics if conditions are right that turns lift tilt light on then bics sends out put to tilt actuator don't try jumping or bypassing powers because it's uses reference voltage and 12 volts can make you new problems good luck hopefully someone will guide you better than I can.
     
  8. Axel

    Axel Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the heads up rmllarue91.

    Btw, just noticed that in the manual theses are called A.H.C hand controls.
    on one of the handles there are two small round holes which are of course somewhat different(larger) from the ones on the photo in the manual, could those be for lights?
    There are however two LED lights next to the auxiliary hydraulic unlock button under the gauges.
    I can probably post photos in the morning
     
  9. Axel

    Axel Well-Known Member

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  10. rmllarue91

    rmllarue91 Senior Member

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    In the handle are the lights I'm famillar with. I think when you turn the key on the machine goes though it's self check and should flash a code for lift and tilt circuit if there is a problem of course. the one I'm working on the lights were bad had to replace the left handle to finish diagnostics.
     
  11. Axel

    Axel Well-Known Member

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    There has not yet been a problem when I start the machine.
    The problem has been occurring during use after warm up, would the lights flash then?
    I don't see any bulbs in this hand control...unless they're deeper in there
     
  12. Axel

    Axel Well-Known Member

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    Could the actuator cause these symptoms?

    I'll probably get around to lifting the cab and checking cables/harnesses in the next few days...
     
  13. crewchief888

    crewchief888 Senior Member

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    check the bics, see if any of the lights are flashing when the lift/tilt stops.

    if you dont have the 2 idiot lights in the LH handle, then you have a very early AHC/ACS system with the metal case controller.

    without a service manual, a good DVM, test harnesses, and an understanding of how the system works, you may be in for trouble.

    this is probaly the worst system to diagnose/troubleshoot, even for an experienced bobcat mechanic.
    if it's really an AHC/ACS issue, the problem could be either handle controller, either actuator,, the AHC controller, wiring, or all the above

    sorry to pee in your cheerios :pointhead


    :drinkup
     
  14. Axel

    Axel Well-Known Member

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    could the problem be caused by the seat bar switch?
    I've been informed that metal dust can build up on the magnetic switch surfaces and cause momentary disruptions which are enough to set the BICS valve lock on.
    I'm planning to take the switch apart ASAP

    Does the LH handle(in the bottom photo) look like one that originally had lights?
    Any idea what those two round openings are on the LH handle?
    When did AHC/ACS systems appear?
     
  15. Axel

    Axel Well-Known Member

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    There has not been any flashing lights on the BICS when lift/tilt stops.
    But I haven't looked at the LH handle when that was happening yet...
     
  16. crewchief888

    crewchief888 Senior Member

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    there should be 2 lights in that handle.
    early AHS/ACS systems were introduced in '98 ( i believe)
    over the years the system has gotten better and better, when the the g series was introduced.
    actual numbered fault codes instead of idiot light flashes
    introduction of the plastic case ACS controller, that ca
     
  17. bigsmoke

    bigsmoke Active Member

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    Seat bar sensor, BICS coil open or controller yacked. The controller isn't likely, and the BICS coil is easiest to check.
     
  18. Axel

    Axel Well-Known Member

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    Finally got a chance to run the bobcat again since I returned. No lights show up on the left hand control. When the valve lock goes off I lift and lower the seat bar, press the "traction lock override" button and get various results.

    results:
    * only the power light stays on
    * power light on and traction light turns on
    * all lights except the valve lock light are on
    * all lights are on but valve lock turns off soon after using arms or tilt.

    also, sometimes when I lift the seat bar, the traction and power light stay on with all other BICS lights off and I can still drive but not lift/tilt.

    how do I check the BICS coil?
     
  19. Axel

    Axel Well-Known Member

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    just to clarify, I can drive around with the seat bar up!
     
  20. crewchief888

    crewchief888 Senior Member

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    thast normal with the seat bar up, and TRACTION LOCK OVERIDE button pushed it will drive.

    your post is still confusing me,
    key on
    seat bar down,
    press to operate
    what lights are on?
    when the lift and tilt stops working
    what lights go out, or there any flashing?

    :drinkup