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Tie downs who needs stinkin tie downs

CM1995

Administrator
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
13,535
Location
Alabama
Occupation
Running what I brung and taking what I win
The road tax on fuel has nothing to do with the envirionment. It was instated to pay for road repair and inprovement. Farm use does not use the road. Off course over the years the government stole the gas and fuel tax to the general fund and let the roads go to Sh*t anyway.

True. Now all the fuel is low sulfur the only difference between road and off-road fuel is the dye. That wasn't the case years ago.
 

movindirt

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2013
Messages
672
Location
under a shady tree
So can Europeans run off road in their tractors that they use to tow their excavators down the highway? :D The price difference here for on road and off road is almost $.50 a gallon.
 

oldtanker

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2010
Messages
463
Location
vining mn
Occupation
Ret
"Disposal fee" wonder where it gets disposed to? .

Up here in this country almost every shop of any size has an EPA approved waste oil furnace. I would bet it wound up in the storage tank that feeds it. So they charge the fee for what amounts to a little paper work to certify that the tank was drained then they burn it legally to heat the shop in the winter along with waste
oil.

Use no less then 15% ethanol or have it tested and make them get fines and pay for a "disposal fee"? Why on earth would you do that? mileage will drop for the simple reason that Gas has a higher BTU output than ethanol which would cause you to burn more fuel to get the same results. Real funny part of ethanol is they built a plant not too far from me not 10 years ago THAT USES COAL as a fuel source to make that stuff.

Rick
 

Moonlite

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
517
Location
Texas
One of my customers hauls his skid steer in his dump trailer unchained. He says it ain't coming out. I told him what about when the trailer tires are facing up instead of on the ground..
 

Andrew_D

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Messages
298
Location
Newdale, Manitoba, Canada
It is illegal to run Offroad fuel because you are not paying road taxes on it, not because of sulfur content. In our area it is the same as On road but has dye added.

Yup, same stuff here too. The fuel haulers add dye to it with an injection system when they fill their tankers.

Should note though, that up here, "F" plated (Farm & Fish) vehicles ARE allowed to run dyed gas/diesel on the road.

Andrew
 

maddog

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
730
Location
middle TN
It is illegal to run Offroad fuel because you are not paying road taxes on it, not because of sulfur content. In our area it is the same as On road but has dye added.

You are correct it is about the tax. I Just don't really care if billybob is running off road in his truck. I know that probably is not the proper guberment way to look at it but I'm sick of all these lame D*&^ taxes being given to politicians just so they can line their pockets!
 

maddog

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
730
Location
middle TN
Up here in this country almost every shop of any size has an EPA approved waste oil furnace. I would bet it wound up in the storage tank that feeds it. So they charge the fee for what amounts to a little paper work to certify that the tank was drained then they burn it legally to heat the shop in the winter along with waste
oil.

So my next question is it being sold twice?

Use no less then 15% ethanol or have it tested and make them get fines and pay for a "disposal fee"? Why on earth would you do that?

I hope you realize I was being sarcastic.

mileage will drop for the simple reason that Gas has a higher BTU output than ethanol which would cause you to burn more fuel to get the same results. Real funny part of ethanol is they built a plant not too far from me not 10 years ago THAT USES COAL as a fuel source to make that stuff.

Rick

Yep, suppose to save the planet by using more resources :confused:
 

maddog

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
730
Location
middle TN
The road tax on fuel has nothing to do with the envirionment. It was instated to pay for road repair and inprovement. Farm use does not use the road.

I would have to disagree with your point, seen many farmers using off road on the highway, and no not for farm chores.

Off course over the years the government stole the gas and fuel tax to the general fund and let the roads go to Sh*t anyway.

exactly my feelings. I don't understand why some get so bent out of shape when they hear about another using off road fuel. Maybe they like paying taxes for nothing in return?
 

maddog

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
730
Location
middle TN
True. Now all the fuel is low sulfur the only difference between road and off-road fuel is the dye. That wasn't the case years ago.

Wasn't it originally high sulfur was consider off road, and the reason for off or on road diesel was to slowly start the conversion to ULSD?
 

hetkind

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Messages
472
Location
Unicoi, TN
The use of ethanol as motor fuel is really nothing more than a massive transfer of wealth from the worker (us) to agribusiness (them) and of course the Bush/Cheney friendly oil companies...

Howard
 

norite

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
483
Location
Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
I may be wrong but around here I was under the impression that in the past, on road diesel was clear and off road was dyed, but the fuel was otherwise identical, and had a fairly high sulfur content which aided the lubricating quality of the fuel. The difference was using #2 heating oil, which had an even higher sulfur content. I remember reading a brochure for Cat equipment back in the 70's that said their engines were designed for #2 and there was no need to use the more expensive diesel fuel.

Now here in Ontario all diesel fuel is ultra low sulfer content and the only difference is the dye.

Got pulled over a couple of years ago and they dipped the tank in my p/u. Glad I had never put colored fuel in that truck as the fines and assessed back road tax would be very high. Officer was very courteous, said there are only a few officers to check fuel for the whole province. I never thought they would stop me in a p/u but apparently it was because I had a 100 g transfer tank and a pump which caught their interest.
 

hetkind

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Messages
472
Location
Unicoi, TN
So can Europeans run off road in their tractors that they use to tow their excavators down the highway? :D The price difference here for on road and off road is almost $.50 a gallon.

In my area, the difference is 7 cents per gallon difference, on the off-road I pay sales tax of 9.5%, on the on-road, I pay the road use tax of 5 cents a gallon.

Not highly significant for my use!

Howard
 

old-iron-habit

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
4,233
Location
Moose Lake, MN
Occupation
Retired Cons't. Supt./Hospitals
In my area, the difference is 7 cents per gallon difference, on the off-road I pay sales tax of 9.5%, on the on-road, I pay the road use tax of 5 cents a gallon.

Not highly significant for my use!

Howard

Its 40 cents a gallon difference at home and still not worth it.
 

oldtanker

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2010
Messages
463
Location
vining mn
Occupation
Ret
The use of ethanol as motor fuel is really nothing more than a massive transfer of wealth from the worker (us) to agribusiness (them) and of course the Bush/Cheney friendly oil companies...

Howard

That's interesting that EPA mandated ethanol use was mandated BEFORE Bush/Cheney. But we all know it was their fault. Their fault that King George just didn't grant the US independence without a fight. Their fault that we fought them again in 1812. Their fault again that the Civil War broke out. Their fault again that we got involved in WWI. Their fault the stock market crashed in 1929. Their fault again that welfare started while Roosevelt was in office. Their fault the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. Their fault that North Korea attacked the south. Viet Nam was their fault too I guess. I guess they started the EPA and OSHA too. Yep all their fault!

Its 40 cents a gallon difference at home and still not worth it.

You'd have to drive a lot of miles to pay for using off road on road is caught!

Rick
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,092
Location
Mount Tabor VT
Occupation
Electrician
My fuel dealer is a crotchety old SOB. He's the biggest property owner in Manchester, unlike Abe Lincoln, he grew up in a 1 room tar paper shack. He's no encyclopedia, but he's plenty smart enough to be rich. I asked him last winter about diesel fuel. His answer was that #2 home heating fuel, and summer off road diesel come from the same tank, and truck. In winter off road is cut with kerosene, adding cost, and reducing power. On road is certified to be meeting a lower level of sulfur. My now deceased sister ran the office for his biggest competitor. Her take was several years ago, that on road fuel had 5% fewer BTUs than off road. Does this mean less power, or more consumption? I don't know. I'd guess you have to turn up injector pressure in old engines to match horsepower. New computer controlled injection systems are a mystery to me. I believe that either you need more money, or less power with on road before factoring tax.

Willie
 

DMiller

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
16,773
Location
Hermann, Missouri
Occupation
Cheap "old" Geezer
Back 'In the Day' 1970's a local contractor had a cash deal with a local builder to go out to his farm and dig a pond over a weekend. Now mind you the rules then were different, NO oversize loads After dusk or before dawn (allowed 1/2 hour each end) and NO oversize on weekends. Well seems the contractor looking to earn some quick cash sent out the boys with either a 950 or 960 rubber tire and a D7D dozer. Scales were generally open on the weekends so they took to county roads, NO signs NO special lighting at2am to get to the site, the Rubber tire arrived a little after 4 but high tailed it as soon as unloaded. Seems some thirty miles away one of the TWO hold down chains at the rear or the 7 let go on a curve. It slid sideways off the trailer down into a ravine tearing out a MASS of brush mud and small trees rolling over coming to rest Upright. The crew got it running, used the second Undamaged trailer to reload it and hauled into the site but used the asphalt road without . Worked it two days solid with sod and crap hanging from the ROPS, stack bent over and a few shoes showing a bit of stress. Had forever used Two small chains just to hold the machines on their trailers, that all changed after that to four on the back two at front 1/2" chains WITH ratchet binders. Saw that machine for five years, remained beat up as a reminder to the crews. As to the damage, the County Sheriff and SHP NEVER did find that cause, did end up with some fine new cars in Both Houses for the officers to ride in and the SAME contractor got a deal to 'Repair the Damage to the ditch bank'!! I suspect a little politics involved.
 

Jeckyl1920

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2018
Messages
226
Location
Riverside, CA
The one time I tried to sneak a few blocks with my load not tied, I creeped thru a gutter and dropped a ton of rebar on the street. Never again.

There's a lowboy that runs around this area, when he is empty, he has a toy loader or dump truck strapped to the middle of it. My bro didn't believe me until he saw him a year ago. I can't find the picture....
 

Georgia Iron

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
902
Location
USA - Georgia
Occupation
Concrete building slab and grading contractor
I personally saw a wreck happen. A deck over trailer was being used to pull an asphalt roller behind a tractor truck. They were turning left at a red light and went through the light at about 20 miles an hour. It was hard to see when driving but you could tell it when out on foot, the road was a five lane road and the lanes were sloped towards the outside which caused the trailer to lean slightly.

Due to the trailer lean, high center of gravity and slightly higher than normal turning speed, and improper chain placement on the roller allowed it to slide across the trailer deck. They had two chains across the roller going all the way from side to side. It was a great chain job to keep the roller from lifting off the deck but not so much so to prevent it from sliding sideways. The chains let it move and once they bound tight they broke the trailer frame. The chains were hooked on to the edge of the Channel main frame. Roller was a medium sized unit and was about a 20 to 25k roller.

The chain hooks broke prefect little pieces out of the frame in little V shaped breaks when the roller slapped into them and bound them tight. The roller continued right off the side of the deck and onto the payment and landed on its side. They had the road blocked for a good long while trying to get the trailer away and then trying to get it back on something big enough to haul it. The Rops was bent over... It put some large holes in the road.

This taught me to NEVER clip your chains onto the frame rail. Always loop and hook them back to themselves. And using 4 chains is MUCH better than 2...
 

motoOzarks

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2017
Messages
110
Location
southwest Missouri ozarks
Occupation
self employed
Trailers with tailgates keep mowers from rolling off the back, don't ask how I know.
I used to have an employee who used my motorcycle to get to the job site and could then move tractors to the next job and haul the bike with him. One summer we were fighting rain and one day it just got old so I told him I would take him home, he could change clothes and when it stopped we could go back to work.
I had a rack on the side of my trailer made to hold a bike with a couple ropes made for the purpose. It was raining so hard I got in a hurry and put one rope on. Got to his house and he gets out and says "where's the bike?"
"Don't $&#* with me man" I said. I drove like Dukes of Hazzard back the way I came, including the wrong way down a one way street, to find my mangled bike on the offramp from the highway.
Two guys were there already trying to load it up in their pickup.
Not only did it shift and fall off but the one rope drug it about 200 feet.
Now I use two ropes and a safety.
 
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