• Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

Tie downs who needs stinkin tie downs

fast_st

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
1,477
Location
Mass
Occupation
IT systems admin
:) even on a rig with an anti-compounding valve, if you hop in for your license air brake check and touch the brakes with the maxi's applied, you fail, done. over even if you call it out. Now older stuff, meh, would rather have some control.
 

mitch504

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
5,776
Location
Andrews SC
You are absolutely right, if you pull the brake knobs, then hit the foot pedal, you actually have less braking power, not more. the first air from the foot valve goes to release the parking brakes, then, and only then, does air go to apply the service brakes.

If the anti-compounding valve is removed, when you apply both chambers, you damage your foundation brakes. This does NOT help.

Truck drivers have been telling other truck drivers to pull the brake knobs in an emergency for years, leaving it to the mechanics who understand how they work to correct this dangerous misinformation.
 

td25c

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2009
Messages
5,250
Location
indiana
I couldn't help but think of this thread today.

Me to digger . Pulled truck & trailer in to Home Depot to load up Kitchen cabinets , counter top , floor , & sink .

Now I didn't even bid on this job and next thing I know we are loading the trailer with about 20 boxes of different size loaded with god knows what for the kitchen remodel .

By the time we got it all tied down used all the ratchet straps & rope . Pretty much a Beverly Hillbilly's moment going home . LOL:D

4 chains & binders will secure any truck or piece of yellow iron we have to haul ..... Kitchen was a different story .:)
 

Heavey Metal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Messages
148
Location
Texas
:) even on a rig with an anti-compounding valve, if you hop in for your license air brake check and touch the brakes with the maxi's applied, you fail, done. over even if you call it out. Now older stuff, meh, would rather have some control.

When you are going into a wreak you pull the button and apply the footvalve and Johnson bar.

The anticompound valve dosnt allow the park brakes to set so nothing happens from pulling the button.

If something happens to the application pressure the spring brakes apply no input from the driver necessary.
 

Heavey Metal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Messages
148
Location
Texas
You are absolutely right, if you pull the brake knobs, then hit the foot pedal, you actually have less braking power, not more. the first air from the foot valve goes to release the parking brakes, then, and only then, does air go to apply the service brakes.

If the anti-compounding valve is removed, when you apply both chambers, you damage your foundation brakes. This does NOT help.

Truck drivers have been telling other truck drivers to pull the brake knobs in an emergency for years, leaving it to the mechanics who understand how they work to correct this dangerous misinformation.

If you are rolling hopefully the spring brakes are already released
 

Heavey Metal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Messages
148
Location
Texas
This might not be the best done video but it does explain how the anti-compounding valve system works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmrP_BxMfOI

Not my video but the first one I found., And Fast_st, I know you knew this already, just backing you up a little!

It is a balance valve the same force is applied to the slack adjuster either from the spring or the service brake diaphragm.
 

oldtanker

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2010
Messages
463
Location
vining mn
Occupation
Ret
No sense of arguing. Loads do slide off of trailers. That's the point of tying them down. Has nothing to do with what happens in an accident but more toward preventing an accident. One of my sons worked for a company that was having a mold transported that tipped the scales at close to 15 tons. The driver didn't tie it down because he thought it wouldn't go anyplace being steel sitting on a wood deck flatbed. No injuries but he lost it on a curve, slide right off the side of the trailer. Back in the late 80's a drive in KY lost a stack of crushed cars that were improperly tied down. They fell onto a car the driver was passing and killed 5 people. Couple of years ago a guy who worked for a landscaping company in the Twin Cities lost a paving stone on the interstate right in front of a cop. He got ticketed. The following year he lost another one. This one bounced up and went through a windshield and killed someone. He was tried and convicted on negligent homicide and was sentenced to 15-20 years.

I don't care how many times you haven't tied something down, or how many years you have been hauling stuff not tied down, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO ENDANGER the general population, much less my wife, my kids or my grandkids because you are lazy.

Rick
 

fast_st

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
1,477
Location
Mass
Occupation
IT systems admin
I'm tying down my baby dozer today and hoping for an incident free trip with not even a spilled soda in my lap! I half cheat and split a 20' chain with 4 load binders, slack in the middle, have to remember to bring the tires to get up over the steel beavertail .
 

redneckracin

Senior Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
582
Location
Western PA
Occupation
Civil Engineer
I'm tying down my baby dozer today and hoping for an incident free trip with not even a spilled soda in my lap! I half cheat and split a 20' chain with 4 load binders, slack in the middle, have to remember to bring the tires to get up over the steel beavertail .

I split my chains like that all the time. No problems yet!
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,121
Location
Mount Tabor VT
Occupation
Electrician
We hear more hearsay about trucking rules than facts. I'm told that Authorities will fine you for less than four individual chains, 5 if it has a bucket. One guy claims over center binders are no longer allowed.
 

Wes J

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2016
Messages
649
Location
Peoria, IL
We hear more hearsay about trucking rules than facts. I'm told that Authorities will fine you for less than four individual chains, 5 if it has a bucket. One guy claims over center binders are no longer allowed.

FMCSA rules are clearly printed in the green book and available online.

Basically:

Under 1000 lbs and 5ft in length, one tie down. Over 5ft or 1000lbs, at least two tide downs. For bulk loads, one tie down every 10 feet.

Your tie down working load limit must equal at least 50% of the weight of the object you are tying down. If the tie down goes from one side of the trailer, over object, and to the other side of the trailer, you get the full WLL (indirect tie down). If your tie down goes from one side of the trailer to the object, you get 50% of the WLL (direct tie down).

If you are hauling a vehicle over 10,000 lbs, you must use at least 4 tie downs, preferably at each corner. More tie downs are needed if your 4 tie downs do not equal 50% of the weight of the vehicle.

Buckets and shovels have to be lowered and have a separate tie down.


You can use any kind of chain you want. Unmarked chains default to grade 30. Unmarked straps default to 1000 lbs/inch of width. Any kind of binder is fine, but every chain has to have a binder or someway to tighten it.

It's really not that complicated.
 

old-iron-habit

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
4,233
Location
Moose Lake, MN
Occupation
Retired Cons't. Supt./Hospitals
FMCSA rules are clearly printed in the green book and available online.

Basically:

Under 1000 lbs and 5ft in length, one tie down. Over 5ft or 1000lbs, at least two tide downs. For bulk loads, one tie down every 10 feet.

Your tie down working load limit must equal at least 50% of the weight of the object you are tying down. If the tie down goes from one side of the trailer, over object, and to the other side of the trailer, you get the full WLL (indirect tie down). If your tie down goes from one side of the trailer to the object, you get 50% of the WLL (direct tie down).

If you are hauling a vehicle over 10,000 lbs, you must use at least 4 tie downs, preferably at each corner. More tie downs are needed if your 4 tie downs do not equal 50% of the weight of the vehicle.

Buckets and shovels have to be lowered and have a separate tie down.


You can use any kind of chain you want. Unmarked chains default to grade 30. Unmarked straps default to 1000 lbs/inch of width. Any kind of binder is fine, but every chain has to have a binder or someway to tighten it.

It's really not that complicated.

The green paperback copy is 600 plus pages if I remember right and it contradicts itself in many places. Before I retired, after our equipment manager got a ticket with a 3/4 ton company pick-up pulling a 3,000 LB trailer, anyone with a company truck was required to take a DOT class. It was taught by a DOT inspector supervisor here in Minnesota. He pointed out many differences in chain-down rules in the book. He also said that when contradictory information is found the most stringent rule applies.
 

xgiovannix12

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Messages
474
Location
New York
Occupation
Operator/Mechanic/Truck driver
idc chain down laws or no chain down laws I always do a 4 pt tie down and run a chain over the boom or attachment.

Wet muddy decks can be very slick. Friday I had a close call with an ex100 at work loading it onto a 20 ton trailer once I got onto the deck I slid off the trailer sideways luckly I swung landing on the counter weight . I lifted my self off the trailer and pulled the trailer out from under the machine. 1st time for me as i am only 24 years old but it can happen to anyone right? I had my fair share of sticky situations but many more to come.
 

td25c

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2009
Messages
5,250
Location
indiana

fast_st

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
1,477
Location
Mass
Occupation
IT systems admin
750 with a skilled operator could really work some magic.
 

td25c

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2009
Messages
5,250
Location
indiana
Yeah fast_st , heavy iron & trucks tend to stay put once you chain them . Use correct size chain & related hardware and put the peddle to the metal .

Where I have the most trouble is securing a light load on a trailer like loose 2X4 lumber ,500 pound lawn mower is a pain as well . Highway is all good but turn off on to a rough rock road with trailer & load bouncing around tends to loosen things up a bit .

I use more tie down points on the lawn mower than the dozer . LOL !
 

Twisted

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
389
Location
MN
idc chain down laws or no chain down laws I always do a 4 pt tie down and run a chain over the boom or attachment.

Wet muddy decks can be very slick. Friday I had a close call with an ex100 at work loading it onto a 20 ton trailer once I got onto the deck I slid off the trailer sideways luckly I swung landing on the counter weight . I lifted my self off the trailer and pulled the trailer out from under the machine. 1st time for me as i am only 24 years old but it can happen to anyone right? I had my fair share of sticky situations but many more to come.

Hey bud. No offense but learn how to load a machine. I don't care what the truck driver says but I won't load a machine on an un-level trailer. If the trailer is level, it's all on you. I've loaded many machines on wet, muddy, frozen and snow packed decks. Flat is good. Don't do it otherwise. It's your life on the line. Be smart, not brave.
 

maddog

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
730
Location
middle TN
No sense of arguing. Loads do slide off of trailers. That's the point of tying them down. Has nothing to do with what happens in an accident but more toward preventing an accident.

Absolutely correct, these folks that have the mentality of a minute saved will get the job done better are FOOLS. There is only 1 way to haul a load, and that would be the safest way possible.

I don't care how many times you haven't tied something down, or how many years you have been hauling stuff not tied down, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO ENDANGER the general population, much less my wife, my kids or my grandkids because you are lazy.

Rick

I'll 2nd that
 
Top