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The pulse of America

John C.

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Jun 11, 2007
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Northwest
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Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
I think we are missing the big picture here.

First, the people on this forum are from my impression self reliant and will generally find a way to keep income flowing to ensure a modest life style. I think it would be safe to say though that no one on here runs Caterpillar, Ford, General Motors, Chrysler, ADM, Rockwell, Boeing, Chase, AIG, Goldman Sachs and on and on.

The big issue is that our segment of the population does not control the government. That is province of the moderate and mega rich. How many here have contributed more than a thousand dollars to a political campaign? How many here could get an appointment to see their state representative, federal representative or senator? How many here get to have input on a bill before congress? How many here have the ability to leverage congress in a direction beneficial their own interests. Is there anyone here that thinks they can get elected to state or political office without spending hundreds of thousands of dollars?

Yes I will agree that there are big problems with how our government spends money. Yes I will agree that government is bloated and rife with what should be described as criminal behavior. But who made it that way? While rich people and huge corporations throw huge amounts of money at politicians, middle class and poor people are worried about survival. Our government is a product of the manipulation of the rich.

So why should they continue to get tax breaks for keeping us from becoming rich?
 

tuney443

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Messages
1,216
Location
Dutchess County,NY
Occupation
excavating contractor
My Dad used to say ''Before a backhoe operator can run a backhoe,he should learn how to operate a shovel.Before an engineer can design a job,he should learn how to operate a backhoe.'' I think we need a new requirement for politicians----they need to spend at least 5 years on a small working farm to see firsthand hard real work and how and why financial decisions are made.Then, later,for every 5 years they serve as some type of politician,they have to go back and work back on some farm so they get an update to refresh their thinking and actions on REAL life. The only problem might be from some of the animals---they probably would object having them around.:rolleyes:
 

Cat Wrench

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
Messages
121
Location
Missouri
I think we are missing the big picture here.

First, the people on this forum are from my impression self reliant and will generally find a way to keep income flowing to ensure a modest life style. I think it would be safe to say though that no one on here runs Caterpillar, Ford, General Motors, Chrysler, ADM, Rockwell, Boeing, Chase, AIG, Goldman Sachs and on and on.

The big issue is that our segment of the population does not control the government. That is province of the moderate and mega rich. How many here have contributed more than a thousand dollars to a political campaign? How many here could get an appointment to see their state representative, federal representative or senator? How many here get to have input on a bill before congress? How many here have the ability to leverage congress in a direction beneficial their own interests. Is there anyone here that thinks they can get elected to state or political office without spending hundreds of thousands of dollars?

Yes I will agree that there are big problems with how our government spends money. Yes I will agree that government is bloated and rife with what should be described as criminal behavior. But who made it that way? While rich people and huge corporations throw huge amounts of money at politicians, middle class and poor people are worried about survival. Our government is a product of the manipulation of the rich.

So why should they continue to get tax breaks for keeping us from becoming rich?

I agree with the premise of your post but I think you are missing the real problem. What needs to be done is to go after corruption, corrupt political practices and most of all corrupt politicians. Taxing people or corporations to control them is wrong and moves more power from the citizens to the government, in that scenario you have created a monster worse than the one your where attempting to slay. If you feel taxing a certain segment of the population at a higher rate (read percentage) is the answer you are falling prey to the class envy that elitists have used to steal control since nearly the dawn of time.
Potential politicians need to be scared to enter politics for fear of the citizens if they are found in corrupt practices.
 

shooterm

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2010
Messages
93
Location
Midwest
Occupation
Operator
We dont usually do residential but we've had a few calls latelly from GCs. It seems like they can't find residential excavator companies anymore. Problem is its not new construction but rehab work like everything else. Its getting to the point we just might have to start tearing down ten year old houses. The real reason we are in this financial problem is the fact disposable housing should last at least fifty year but where going to see twenty-five years out of the current houses. Its products, engineers, carpenter, and excavating outfits all pushed by the "investor". I'm also on the boat that this correction is necessary or else my son quite possibly will be in a worse spot then we are now.
 

CM1995

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Joined
Jan 21, 2007
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13,246
Location
Alabama
Occupation
Running what I brung and taking what I win
What needs to be done is to go after corruption, corrupt political practices and most of all corrupt politicians. Taxing people or corporations to control them is wrong and moves more power from the citizens to the government, in that scenario you have created a monster worse than the one your where attempting to slay.

Well said Cat Wrench. If we just increase the taxes on the "rich" and corporations we just feed more money to the already corrupt and bloated Fed gov't. We don't need to throw gas on the fire.

My thoughts are we, as citizens, demand the gov't spend less and take less of all of our money at the end of the year. If taxes are raised on Corporations, the end user/buyer pays the tax increase anyway. Taxes are a line item cost for Corporations, in calculating sales price of the good or service.

I've been in the twenty eight percent tax income tax rate for some time. Rich people make their money on investments and only pay fifteen percent. Why do they get the break and we pay full bore.

John, you can also take advantage of 15% capital gains taxes just like every other citizen here.:beatsme You are comparing the income tax rate to the captial gains tax rate which are two different animals.

For example, say you buy 10 acres of land for $20,000. You hold it for 5 years and sell it for $35,000. Your profit of $15K, less associated right offs, would be only taxed at 15% not the normal income tax rate. I may not be the CFO of Cat but I try to think that way.:cool2



BTW - the term "Rich" has been thrown around in this thread a lot. How much money does one person need to have to be considered "rich"?
 

davidd

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Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
154
Location
ga
Occupation
www.paulowniatrees.com
Monkeys --

Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang a
banana on a string and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, a
monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana.

As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all the monkeys with cold
water. After a while another monkey makes the attempt with same result,
all the monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon when
another Monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try to
prevent it.

Now, put the cold water away. Remove one monkey from the cage and
replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants to
climb the stairs.

To his shock, all of the other monkeys beat the snot out of him. After
another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the
stairs he will be assaulted.

Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a
new one.

The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer
takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm.

Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth,
then the fifth. Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs he is
attacked.

Most of the monkeys that are beating him up have no idea why they were
not permitted to climb the stairs OR even why they are participating in
the beating of the newest monkey. Finally, after replacing all of the
original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys have ever been sprayed
with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the
stairs to try for the banana.

Why not?

Because as far as they know, that is the way it has always been done
around here.

And that, my fellow monkeys, is how Congress operates - And precisely
why we need to REPLACE all the monkeys this November.
 

willie59

Administrator
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
13,361
Location
Knoxville TN
Occupation
Service Manager
Very nice analogy Davidd. :)

BTW, that kinda sounds like our behavior at our chatroom, monkees in a cage. LoL :D
 

OCR

Senior Member
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Feb 21, 2008
Messages
1,195
Location
Montana
Occupation
Rancher/Farmer, Wildland Fire Fighter, State snowp
Last edited:

grandpa

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2009
Messages
1,979
Location
northern minnesota
For the sake of conversation, the way I look at it is we have people pulling the cart and we have people riding in the cart. What if by chance we are already to the point of more people riding than there are pulling? So, for conversations sake :) ,the people in the cart vote their hearts and things remain pretty much the same. Does any of you brilliant minds out there have a follow up plan......?
 

Cat Wrench

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
Messages
121
Location
Missouri
For the sake of conversation, the way I look at it is we have people pulling the cart and we have people riding in the cart. What if by chance we are already to the point of more people riding than there are pulling? So, for conversations sake :) ,the people in the cart vote their hearts and things remain pretty much the same. Does any of you brilliant minds out there have a follow up plan......?

Don't need one. The system at that point will collapse (it may be there already) and we will find out the true reason for the Second Amendment.
 

Iron@Dirt

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
305
Location
south lou.
davidd has good pionts.. I rather congress be limited to two terms, first term in conngress, second term in prison(or visaxversa).. Just my 25 cents, dont forget inflation that they say doesnt exist.
 

DIRTROAD

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Joined
Mar 25, 2010
Messages
73
Location
South Carolina
Occupation
Forestry
Very good thread!!

It all boils down to the fact that we as a country have major problems.

It doesn't matter whether it was a political decission or a business decission, they were bad decissions.

The Bible says this:
1 Timothy 6:10 (New International Version)
"For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs."


The greed of those that have made the decissions, is ultimately to blame.

It all started when The Bible and prayer were taken out of public schools.

The snowball effect from there is evident everytime we turn on the TV or open a newspaper.

In short: Without revival in America, we are doomed to suffer the consequences of our sin.

Just my message from the pulpit.:)
 

OCR

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
1,195
Location
Montana
Occupation
Rancher/Farmer, Wildland Fire Fighter, State snowp
The pulse of America:

grandpa said:
Does any of you brilliant minds out there have a follow up plan......?
Why yes, I do... but unless you're 60 or over, you just can't be privy to it... :cool2

I really am sorry... :crying



OCR
 

grandpa

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2009
Messages
1,979
Location
northern minnesota
Why yes, I do... but unless you're 60 or over, you just can't be privy to it... :cool2

I really am sorry... :crying



OCR

Well lets hope the elections turn out for the betterment of this country,,,,,that way I wouldn't need to see your plan......At your age they don't call it a plan, its called assisted living....bh h hah ha:cool2
 

digger242j

Administrator
Joined
Oct 31, 2003
Messages
6,628
Location
Southwestern PA
Occupation
Self employed excavator
Let's take a moment and read the Forum Rules again...

No discussion of politics unrelated to the heavy equipment industry should be made. Slanderous references to political beliefs or parties should not be made within these posts, such as flaming lefty, right wing zealot or other similar type label.

No posts of religious or racist content may be made.

We started out and spent a couple of pages tap dancing on the ragged border between politics (the politics that is influencing our business climate), economics, and sociology, and with the exception of CM's need to take temporary action, it's been ok.

In the last few posts, we're venturing into some pretty sketchy territory, including allegations that the President is intent on destroying the country, (david d, the Snopes article you link affirms that that particular author did indeed make that claim; not that the claim is true), a hint at violent revolution (Cat wrench, keep your guns clean if you like, but please don't plan on shooting any people on either side of the question just yet), and a message from the pulpit. Big red flags all, that a thread may soon get out of hand, for those of us who have to wear the Moderator Hat.

Let's all try to keep within the rules, and if you're not sure you're within the rules, you're probably not...
 

Cat Wrench

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
Messages
121
Location
Missouri
No digger I am not suggesting shooting anyone just stimulating thought on what would happen if the whole system as we know it failed, I was not insinuating revolution.

I think the resiliency of or country is shaken but not fatally wounded. The United States was founded by some of the most brilliant men that ever walked the face of the earth.
We have a great heritage and quite possibly a great future we just have to give it the correction our Constitution has afforded us, that is the power to vote and change the climate of politics in our land.

I often think about the construction heydays that brought us the highways, created great companies that our elders retired from, brought us lots of equipment (when will we ever see as many scrapers as were built in the 60-70's) and created an infrastructure that we are still profiting from today.
I think if we can get back on track we will be poised to see things the younger ones of us only heard about. The highway boom was real and needed unlike the synthetic housing boom. For most of us the housing boom was the only construction explosion we have seen.
 

John C.

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Messages
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Location
Northwest
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Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
I'll consider the current proposal in congress concerning rolling back the Bush era tax cuts as the bottom level of rich. Two hundred fifty thousand dollars a year in income.

You can make all the analogies you want to support why raising taxes on the rich is bad. But what you can't support is borrowing money from China to fund two wars, a health care program that will grow from nothing to billions of dollars and continue to pay unemployment forever and allow thousands of illegal immigrants to benefit from our health care and education systems.

What I can see is that the current system is not supportable. Many of you speak of people who don't want to work. I don't associate with those types of people. I do associate with many who are out of work and just collecting unemployment to make ends meet. Many will lose that soon with a big bunch losing houses not because they made bad loans, but because there is no work. They are not going to move to China to find work.

That being the case how many of them do you think you will get saddled with supporting?
 

digger242j

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No digger I am not suggesting shooting anyone just stimulating thought on what would happen if the whole system as we know it failed, I was not insinuating revolution.

With all due respect, not just here on HEF, but other places on the 'net, and in the blogosphere, we've all seen firearms mentioned in the same breath as other possible solutions to our current problems. What I was trying to get across is that that raises a red flag to me, in the role of a moderator, as I don't really consider violence to be part of any viable solution, ergo, even the mention of it really doesn't have a place in a reasonable discussion of the problems. (Emphasis on the word "reasonable", since that's the type of discussion we're trying to maintain here.)

I didn't say you or anybody else wasn't allowed to say it. I just felt I'd better point it out, so that everybody could give some thought to what they decide to post. It's my opinion, as a moderator, that any solution that considers violence addresses problems a whole lot bigger than what could be interpreted to be 'related to this industry', which is the limit on political discussion that the Forum Rules contain.

Does that make sense to you?
 
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