The Chinese toy excavator thread.

[sewer bill]

Let's clear the room first.

Obviously these are not logical well thought out decent quality brand name machines and they perform tasks compared to such machines pretty much worse in every manner except upfront cost.

The crux: still better than a shovel. Still debatably better than a high hour nearly worn out brand name machine that needs a lot of money to bring back up to snuff and a line bore job on every hole.

Here's the thread for tasteful upgrades and farm tier hacks to make these unfinished machines slightly more reliable or easy to operate.

Recently purchased an "ire20" with the "kubota" d772.

Extremely common import mini excavator probably has 10 different brand names from the same 2 oems in China. Variance in specs seems pretty narrow so just about all of them in this "2 ton" category can be described as the same, some seem to have better swing gear motor mounts and some have more counterweight than others.

All of them are essentially unfinished products not suitable for work without the time to finish what China started. All of them are extremely overpriced unless obtained at auction or in bulk out of the shipping container. I have seen them as low as 4k for gas powered and 6k for the diesel powered ones. I paid 8k for mine. Little importer shops that are popping up all over the place seem to ask over 20k for diesel models with the thumbs and even more for ones with the swing booms.

I'll blog what kind of things I can improve for small tasks and machine operation and hopefully someone will find it helpful.

Feel free to argue about quality and bad Chinese engineering.

 

[CM1995]

The crux: still better than a shovel.

Yep. Now you may need 3 of the same model in order to keep one running but still better than a shovel.

 

[mowingman]

Those are showing up in large quantities on our local Facebook marketplace. Probably 7 or 8 different brand names are showing up here in north Texas. I think all you need is enough money to buy 2 or 3 container loads, and they will paint them any color you want and apply any name decal you want. Just for fun, I have compared specs, and I think sewer bill is correct, they are all the same, and coming from only two or three different factories.

 

[Vetech63]

I still prefer a shovel with a few beers on ice nearby

 

[CM1995]

I still prefer a shovel with a few beers on ice nearby

Screw that. I'm either working or having an adult beverage - One does not interfere with the other.

 

[Vetech63]

Screw that. I'm either working or having an adult beverage - One does not interfere with the other.

I’m old……shovel for 30 minutes, break and cold beer for 30 minutes…..rinse and repeat

 

[ianjoub]

I bought a 1.8T and a stand on skid loader direct from China. I think I was $40k all in for the pair with a bunch of attachments including shipping and taxes. I made a thread on here if you want to check the numbers.

Both units have a Kubota diesel. The stand on loader had some issues. The excavator has a hyd thumb and swing boom option. It has been great. The only 'problems' I have had are:

1. Hydraulic power is lessened on some functions when using others. Ex. trying to rotate when tracking will result in one drive motor getting less power than the other and not traveling straight. The fix has been deal with it and not use 2 competing functions at once.

2. The controls have been getting jerky as of late when hot, full power, and trying to work fast. I ordered AW100 hydraulic oil (30 wt.) and will try that. I am in FL and the owners manual suggests that for hot weather operation. I have a bit over 100 hrs on the machine so I do no think it needs to be changed yet and is still clean looking, but I am not sure what weight oil was used during manufacture as 32, 46, 68, and 100 are all listed as usable in the machine depending on environment.

Oh, I guess I had a 3rd issue. The thumb would hit the boom when the stick was curled all the way in and the thumb was fully extended. I cut off the mounting tabs for the ram and thumb and welded them back on in a better spot.

 

[PeterG]

So the ire20 has a 14 hp kubota diesel engine which is great. The machine has a weight of just 1600 lbs though.

My Takeuchi TB016 has a 13.8 hp Yanmar diesel engine which is great. But the Takeuchi has a weight of 3,524 lbs.

 

[PeterG]

The extra weight of the TB016 may be good as (counter weight), and the machine may have a stronger steel frame and stick with heavier pins and bushings, bigger hydraulic cylinders, and tracks that move in to get through a 42" gate, and move out to be 48" wider for stability. It's also easier to get wider buckets.

 

[sewer bill]

I bought a 1.8T and a stand on skid loader direct from China. I think I was $40k all in for the pair with a bunch of attachments including shipping and taxes. I made a thread on here if you want to check the numbers.

Both units have a Kubota diesel. The stand on loader had some issues. The excavator has a hyd thumb and swing boom option. It has been great. The only 'problems' I have had are:

1. Hydraulic power is lessened on some functions when using others. Ex. trying to rotate when tracking will result in one drive motor getting less power than the other and not traveling straight. The fix has been deal with it and not use 2 competing functions at once.

2. The controls have been getting jerky as of late when hot, full power, and trying to work fast. I ordered AW100 hydraulic oil (30 wt.) and will try that. I am in FL and the owners manual suggests that for hot weather operation. I have a bit over 100 hrs on the machine so I do no think it needs to be changed yet and is still clean looking, but I am not sure what weight oil was used during manufacture as 32, 46, 68, and 100 are all listed as usable in the machine depending on environment.

Oh, I guess I had a 3rd issue. The thumb would hit the boom when the stick was curled all the way in and the thumb was fully extended. I cut off the mounting tabs for the ram and thumb and welded them back on in a better spot.

1. That seems common, mine tracks straight while swinging but you can hear it working harder.

2. There are lots of complaints I have read from gas and diesel 2 ton owners that their machines were shipped with not actual hydraulic fluid just some kind of transport fluid. I think it is probably janky stuff and I have read multiple people being satisfied with performance after swapping the fluid to 46. Another popular thing seems to be to put stiffer springs over the pilot plungers to tame down the jerkyness.

3. The thumbs are definitely hit or miss on these and at the auction I bought mine at they had 5 of these lined up in a row and 2 of them I could see the the pin holes were over an inch off from the others. Mine does not hit the boom but now I wonder if those other 2 machines would lol.

 

[sewer bill]

So the ire20 has a 14 hp kubota diesel engine which is great. The machine has a weight of just 1600 lbs though.

My Takeuchi TB016 has a 13.8 hp Yanmar diesel engine which is great. But the Takeuchi has a weight of 3,524 lbs.

It definitely feels half as heavy as the tb016s I have rented. Digging force is low and it feels tippy like it needs a lot more counterweight. I have a lot of lead bars and plan on welding up a rack to go under the sheet metal that's shaped like a counterweight, (lol no seriously it's sheet metal) to fill with lead.

Mine came with two 5/8" steel plates welded together and bolted as a counterweight.

 

[sewer bill]

Started some more fiddling this morning and switched the control pattern from SAE to ISO as that's what I'm more comfortable with.

Discovered the Chinese just haphazardly sent some tri lobe self tappers in until they stripped in a couple places on the floor pan so I'll be drilling those out and giving them a nut sert.

Also discovered the foot controls that operate the thumb and the grading blade are the laziest most last minute ship it out the door solution to operate a valve. They have an m8 bolt through some flat steel bar loose with a lock nut on the valve spool and a pivot point on the valve. Binds up in every direction when nearly snugged flush to the steel bar stock of the foot control. Flops around all sad and loose when loosened to the point of no longer binding.

Just disconnecting the foot controls through the sheet metal to get the floor pan off was a pain in the ass. Of course they used way too long of bolts with whatever was probably laying around so had to undo the rear ones on the fixed part of the valve and then rotate the valve spool to get the front bolt out otherwise it hits the pressure regulator adjustment screw. Fancy mechanical puzzle those Chinese sure are crafty.

So once I get through the hydraulic fluid swap and doing some tidying up of hose routing I'll be throwing some m8 shoulder bolts and brass washers in the foot controls temporarily until I figure out how I'm going to move the control of those either with heim joint linkage or some kind of cable control.

Started digging up a bush in the back yard and so far other than feeling like it's got no counterweight it's running very smooth and all the functions besides the foot controls work the way they should. Still haven't fiddled with any of the attachments yet.

 

[sewer bill]

Yep. Now you may need 3 of the same model in order to keep one running but still better than a shovel.

Exactly my plan.

My hope is some non mechanical homeowner types run ethanol gas through their gas powered ones and end up scrapping them for a no start condition by next spring. First auction I was at this spring I saw over 50 gas ones get sold, buddy of mine said he saw over a hundred at the RB auction. Already have my junkyard guy keeping his feelers out for them.

 

[CM1995]

I know the answer but I'll ask it anyway - So these machines are basically buyer beware with no warranty?

Buying this little machines by the container load and selling them might be a lucrative business with no warranty..

 

[ianjoub]

I would guess yes if at auction. I bought directly from the manufacturer. I got a warranty and support. Unfortunately that service left something to be desired.

With my stand on loader, there was a bad weld on the track frame. It broke and allowed some distortion of the frame. I tried my best to send pics and describe the problem and the part I needed. I was send a large pile of expensive parts to repair it. Unfortunately, I got a bunch of stuff I didn't need instead of the one part I needed. I would have been far less expensive for them to send the one part I did need.

 

[sewer bill]

I know the answer but I'll ask it anyway - So these machines are basically buyer beware with no warranty?

Buying this little machines by the container load and selling them might be a lucrative business with no warranty..

The auction was as is no warranty but the machine had a piece of paper that said it allegedly has a one year warranty.

I could be wrong but I doubt there's anyone going to answer my emails or phone calls if I break something during this "warranty".

I bought it as buyer beware and fiddled around the auction lot with it for 15 minutes before deciding it was worth bidding on.

There's definitely a market for volume sales, the demand is there if the price is right. Auction dude said there were over 50 bids from proxy bid and about 20 from their own website for the 5 identical 2 ton machines.

 

[ianjoub]

 

[MG84]

Am I the only one who thinks it's morally wrong to be buying durable goods from a country that: 1) Hates the USA and views us as their biggest enemy, 2) steals our intellectual property, 3) ignores copyright and patent laws, 4) treats their workforce like crap, 5) treats the end buyer (you) like crap, and 6) delivers products of abhorrent quality?

There's a lot more at stake than just a cheap price, I wish people would wake up and look at the big picture. Nowadays it seems most people just want cheap crap, tons of it, and want it now.....

 

[sewer bill]

Am I the only one who thinks it's morally wrong to be buying durable goods from a country that: 1) Hates the USA and views us as their biggest enemy, 2) steals our intellectual property, 3) ignores copyright and patent laws, 4) treats their workforce like crap, 5) treats the end buyer (you) like crap, and 6) delivers products of abhorrent quality?

There's a lot more at stake than just a cheap price, I wish people would wake up and look at the big picture. Nowadays it seems most people just want cheap crap, tons of it, and want it now.....

No you aren't the only one.

However, I'm 34 years old, the offshoring of domestic manufacturing began way before I was born. The brand name equipment that does exist has priced me out for new equipment and I have been shopping and trying to make the logistics of buying a used brand name mini excavator work for about 6 years now.

My budget options for buying something vaguely reliable with a brand name without going into serious debt with no immediate revenue stream for this excavator puts me in burned out or clapped out machine territory.

While I do pride myself on my mechanical abilities I do know my limitations, I have no garage, very small machine tools for fabrication or repair work and only a 10x12 flat cement slab on my property, pulling a high hour engine out and doing a complete overhaul is unrealistic with my current circumstances, line boring I would have to pay someone for. Most of the brand name machines I have looked at over the years needed significant repair costs, engine rebuilds, sloppy bores, torn up worn out undercarriages, unbelievably expensive or flat out unavailable spare parts, questionable histories and signs of rental abuse.

What's at stake is outside my control. I didn't vote or have the choice put to vote that made brand name equipment so far outside my budget that I'd be looking at putting my home equity up as collateral for a loan.

I would have much rather bought a better non Chinese machine, but the decisions my parents generation made are the consequences I have to live with, and I would argue they weren't given a seat at the negotiating table when the offshoring and profit driven choices started either.

A mini excavator is not a complicated machine either so I do place some blame on big companies for getting rightfully undercut in this free market they have lobbied our government so hard for to extract as much profit as possible to make their stock price go up.

You can't convince me there isn't a coordinated effort among manufacturers either to have some price stability along tonnage of equipment, they could have made a 10 thousand dollar "2 ton" machine with the same features as mine, they just chose not to, because it would make people question why the larger machines are more expensive too. It's a game and I'm playing it too.

So now I'm giving money to a communist government instead of a soulless publicly traded corporation with no allegiance to any nation only to the most favorable trade conditions as demonstrated by the offshoring of their manufacturing.

 

[ianjoub]

Am I the only one who thinks it's morally wrong to be buying durable goods from a country that: 1) Hates the USA and views us as their biggest enemy, 2) steals our intellectual property, 3) ignores copyright and patent laws, 4) treats their workforce like crap, 5) treats the end buyer (you) like crap, and 6) delivers products of abhorrent quality?

There's a lot more at stake than just a cheap price, I wish people would wake up and look at the big picture. Nowadays it seems most people just want cheap crap, tons of it, and want it now.....

The whole country hates us? Are you sure they view us as an enemy vs adversary or more benign term like competitor? Do you personally know anyone from China or are you basing this on propaganda?

Treats their workforce like crap? Once again, have you any first hand experience or just hearsay? Is our workforce treated that much better?

They treat their buyers like crap? Any first hand experience with this? Have you been treated like a king with every person/company you have dealt with that is US based? I was satisfied with my dealings with the company I did business with: 2loader.com or https://cncougar.en.made-in-china.com/

I also did not find my equipment to be of 'abhorrent quality'. Shall we discuss US made cars in the 70's and 80's? K cars ring a bell?

You may not like their government and its policies. They may not like ours. Does that mean we should hate the individuals trapped in the system? It was the Soviet Union when I was a kid. We were taught that they hated us and if you ever met a Russian they would try to kill you. I didn't believe it then and I don't believe it now. They are likely just a bunch of INDIVIDUALS trying to make their way thought life as best they can, JUST LIKE US.

So, I do not think it is morally wrong to buy from China.