TH514 Implement Electrics

[Jelte Steenkamp]

Hi All.
Apologies for this long story. My first time on a telehandler and I must say I am very disappointed in the Literature available.
Looking for some specs and advice.
TH514, TBW prefix. Initially only had slow tilt function and some say boom only lifted after tilt was activated. Too many people had a go and this included adjusting relief valves and a "hydraulic flush" without cylinders cleaned and electrical checked. Then the pump was replaced as it was found preventing engine start which turned out to be a plug in dump line from main control valve.
I then inherited a machine with very hard steering and No Implements. Steering was sorted with a swapped hose on Control valve and then Pilot pressure was reduced to 30bar(435psi) as seen on schematic. Maximum pump pressure was at 280 bar(4060psi).
Implements didn't respond at all but the LS pressure reached about 7 bar when requesting boom lift. Eliminated all external valve/circuits by isolating one at a time from Main control valve. Removed control valve and found LS check valve sticky and cleaned it. No damage to any spools piston/slugs in valve. Installed and then found boom raising and Telescopic retracting but intermittently. Now I disregarded Site protocol and entered the cab myself despite not being an authorised operator and found the following codes: ACTIVE: 8519, LSI out of calibration. LOGGED: 2346, Boom angle sensor not responding, 8519, LSI load cell out of range. and a couple of others...
Worrying me is the Maximum voltage on Datalog of 19 Volts on a 12 volt system?
I have managed to lower the boom by swapping solenoid wires on the Main control valve and this confirms to me the electrical issue. Boom angle sensor intermittently reads 99 degree but resets after power down.
Questions : Is 8 volt to solenoids correct? This is not a Cat ECM but rather JLG.
Will these codes have this impact on implements? From what I could gather from the manual, an LSI problem will disable all but boom lower...
The Yellow warning "machine system distress" is permanently Active and Crab steer light flashed continuously until I disabled 4 wheel steer in the Configuration.

Looking forward to your input...
Regards

 

[Acecadet]

Is the 8 volts you are measuring being seen while actively trying the function or is this just passive voltage from the controller making sure it still has a path of continuity? Judging by the codes I looked up in the service manual, I’d say you should start with a new load cell and boom angle sensor. Otherwise you have a lot of controller inhibitors messing with you.

 

[Jelte Steenkamp]

That is the weird part. It is continuous, whether trying the function or not.
Thanks for your input. When you say inhibitors, do you mean inputs like position sensors?

 

[Acecadet]

By inhibitors I mean that the programming in the controller is written in such a way that even when the most inexperienced operator is in the seat, the machine is doing its best to keep itself from getting into a dangerous situation. When inputs are missing or known to be incorrect the machine is going to not do any function that could make the situation worse. Im not saying that the machine doesn’t have other problems, but the ones that it is flagging need to be addressed first before more accurate troubleshooting can be performed.

 

[Jelte Steenkamp]

By inhibitors I mean that the programming in the controller is written in such a way that even when the most inexperienced operator is in the seat, the machine is doing its best to keep itself from getting into a dangerous situation. When inputs are missing or known to be incorrect the machine is going to not do any function that could make the situation worse. Im not saying that the machine doesn’t have other problems, but the ones that it is flagging need to be addressed first before more accurate troubleshooting can be performed.

Thanks. We are on the same page, but my thinking was just focused on the hardware. Especially the boom sensor and LSI calibration but even with Boom angle registering as expected the machine sometimes doesn't respond.
I found a connector with broken latch on the Controller last night, but even securing that doesn't make a difference.
Plan for now is to dig into harness and connectors and ensure they are good as the circuits for these sensors mentioned share connectors.

Regards

 

[Nige]

Do you have a Service Manual and schematics for it.?

From the manual regarding the 8519 LMI Code.
Trigger for Fault - The UGM LSI-CAN system check has been performed and the actual load cell raw counts are not within +/- 10 counts of the logged calibrated counts.
Other Actions Taken - If active, the control system will respond as if the Load Moment Cutout % parameter has been reached and react accordingly depending on the MARKET configuration. Set CAN message bit to permit LSI System display control of its alarm.
Latch Until - The LSI-CAN system check is performed and is completed with a pass condition.

 

[Jelte Steenkamp]

Do you have a Service Manual and schematics for it.?

From the manual regarding the 8519 LMI Code.
Trigger for Fault - The UGM LSI-CAN system check has been performed and the actual load cell raw counts are not within +/- 10 counts of the logged calibrated counts.
Other Actions Taken - If active, the control system will respond as if the Load Moment Cutout % parameter has been reached and react accordingly depending on the MARKET configuration. Set CAN message bit to permit LSI System display control of its alarm.
Latch Until - The LSI-CAN system check is performed and is completed with a pass condition.

Hi,
Thanks for your response.
I have manual and schematic but not a Hand Held Analyzer. Pardon my second language English but I am not clear on this troubleshooting guide. Is there a override/bypass setting for the LSI? This can help me to troubleshoot, but of course I will not let machine work like that..

 

[Nige]

I have manual and schematic but not a Hand Held Analyzer. Pardon my second language English but I am not clear on this troubleshooting guide. Is there a override/bypass setting for the LSI?

The fact that you don't have access to ET is a major disadvantage. Often ET will link directly to guided diagnostics that walk you through the relevant testing procedure. I have no experience on this model so can't be of much help I'm afraid. I simply asked the question to see what service information & diagnostic tools you had available. I could help you with the manual & schematics but not with anything else. Sorry about that.

 

[Nige]

I may have found something............ but you will still require the 330-5251 Analyzer in order to get into the system to check for faults. There seems to be no way around it.

The document I downloaded is too large to uploade here but you have access to SIS therefore you should be able to download it yourself. Search SIS for UENR6264. This is a manual for a TH255 telehandler. In it there is a section 9.15.5 on "Operator Tools" that contains a procedure to calibrate the LSI. I wonder if the machine you are working on has the same capability.?
I suggest to start from Section 9.15 "Analyzer Software Accessibility". You will need a Code to get into the calibration that is indicated in the first couple of lines.

 

[Jelte Steenkamp]

I may have found something............ but you will still require the 330-5251 Analyzer in order to get into the system to check for faults. There seems to be no way around it.

The document I downloaded is too large to uploade here but you have access to SIS therefore you should be able to download it yourself. Search SIS for UENR6264. This is a manual for a TH255 telehandler. In it there is a section 9.15.5 on "Operator Tools" that contains a procedure to calibrate the LSI. I wonder if the machine you are working on has the same capability.?
I suggest to start from Section 9.15 "Analyzer Software Accessibility". You will need a Code to get into the calibration that is indicated in the first couple of lines.

Thanks. I will look it up. I have ET but it only connects to Transmission ECM and not the Implement controller as this is a Cat BRANDED telehandler. As per my Original post I was able to retrieve faults from the Display in Service mode. I tested harness last night and found the power supply wire to the LSI sensor has VERY high resistance and Boom Angle circuit tests good.
Hopefully I will get the LSI active code sorted tonight and then look at calibration.

Thanks again for your support. As I said this is my first go at any Telehandler so any ideas are appreciated.

 

[Nige]

Thanks again for your support. As I said this is my first go at any Telehandler so any ideas are appreciated.

Same here. I've been around them but never really worked on them, if that makes sense. I can usually find stuff on SIS for example.

FYI I found UENR6264 by a search in SIS, initially for "8519", then narrowed it down to "telehandler" and out of 38 results it was the second document on the list.

 

[Jelte Steenkamp]

Same here. I've been around them but never really worked on them, if that makes sense. I can usually find stuff on SIS for example.

FYI I found UENR6264 by a search in SIS, initially for "8519", then narrowed it down to "telehandler" and out of 38 results it was the second document on the list.

Thanks. It is basically the same manual as found on the SIS2 web link to" Cat Branded Telehandlers". The TH514 doesn't have a LSI sensor on the boom though. Only the one on rear axle. I see the calibration procedure needs Boom movement which is not happening at this stage. I seem to recall a colleague stating that he did the calibration but was unsuccessful. I will just verify with the TH514 manual after reparing fault codes

 

[Jelte Steenkamp]

Hi,
Long Story short: The UGM,LSI display and sensor was damaged. Apparently by voltage spike. Swapped with known good controller and all Hydraulic functions worked but LSI keeps active codes and warnings Currently awaiting arrival of new parts.

 

[Nige]

Any signs of someone welding on it before you arrived on the scene.?

 

[Jelte Steenkamp]

Any signs of someone welding on it before you arrived on the scene.?

Hi,
No. The machine apparently came in with slow tilt function. Sadly the troubleshooting was haphazardly done and I can not ascertain a Chronological order of events but what has happened in the 6 months prior to my involvement:
System Clean,
Control valve resealed because of leaks after system clean.
Hard Starting noted and it was found the implement pump dead-ended due to lines swapped or contamination plugs...
We suspect a 24v jump start on 12volt system during the hard start troubleshooting as the Datalog shows 19volts logged.

 

[Nige]

We suspect a 24v jump start on 12volt system during the hard start troubleshooting as the Datalog shows 19volts logged.

Oooh, that would do it. An expensive lesson for someone but you'll probably never find out who.