Tandem dump or tractor and lowboy?

[Dig_Texas]

Hi All. I'm a long-time lurker and have enjoyed reading and learning from everyone's experience. I only wish I had found the site earlier since it would have saved me $$$ and aggravation on a past purchase of a truck. I'm hoping to get some feedback and user experience to help guide me on my anticipated future purchase.

I own an HVAC company and have been recently installing geothermal heat pumps. After my driller finishes the wells, I dig the trenches to tie everything together and then backfill and clean up. My current setup is a JD 310G that I haul on a Trail King TK20 trailer. I used to pull this rig with an International 4900 single axle dump. The truck had a 444E engine (gutless) and automatic tranny (worthless). I sold the truck since it would barely pull a hill and merging into traffic was a nightmare.

I want to upgrade my equipment to include either a Cat 3 or 4 dozer to use for finish grading and also hopefully some pad site work since some of the geothermal customers are building new homes and I would have the opportunity to bid some extra work.

From personal experience, I know that a tractor/lowboy setup would be the ideal rig to haul equipment but I'd hate to take a haircut on my TK20 and would need the $$$ anyway to buy a lowboy. My only concern is that when I install a horizontal geothermal loop field vs. the wells, it works the JD pretty good digging 3 - 4 thousand feet of trench 8' deep and then trying to backfill with a hoe (which is why I want the dozer) and if work continues to be good, I'd like to eventually buy a Cat 315 or JD 120/160. I know my present trailer would not haul the excavator.

My budget is $30K for a truck. I don't want a junker since I feel how your equipment looks and is kept reveals alot about how your company will perform the work.

I'm leaning right now to buy a decent tandem axle truck and use it to pull my current trailer. If business continues to prosper, I could sell/trade this unit for a tractor/lowboy OR find a way to buy a Double tandem tri-axle trailer to haul the excavator. I know to stay away from the 3208 and the 3116. I've read alot of good reviews on this site on the 3406. I've seen a couple of Peterbilt dumps offered with the Cat C10 and C12 and Detroit 12.6 engines. I guess my question would be, what engines would you definitely avoid, due to high maintenance or reliability issues. I really want to get this next purchase right so even though I'm itching to pull the trigger, I'll wait until I've done my homework this time. I also have my Class A CDL so that is not an issue.

Thanks for any and all input

 

[stumpjumper83]

30k isnt alot for a dumptruck, your going to be in the 15 year old category I would assume. Now the problem with alot of tandem dumps is that they didn't get the larger motors cause they only went to 56k pounds, or if they are a high hp, they are a single frame converted road tractor with a light front. Most dumps run a 18k front, and a road tractor will get a 12, usually.

Nobody said you couldn't pull a tag trailer behind a road tractor, just have a fab shop put a hitch plate back there and keep using the tk20, it might look a little goofy, but it will do the job. Then when you get a lowboy, your ready to go. Also daycab road tractors are significantly cheaper used than tandem dumps. $ wise on used trucks the ford L9000 & louisvilles are the best deal going, alot of them left with 3406 mechanicals and the cabs are nice.

Before I bought a dozer of the d3/4 caliber, I'd demo a takeuchi 140, 150, 240 & 250, they are brutes and very versitile.

 

[Jim Dandy]

You mentioned starting to do other site work outside of geothermal. If so you could make use of a dump truck. I have a Hitachi 160 track hoe that I haul behind my 2 axle 20 ton tag. Some will say I am pushing it but I drive carefully, keep my following distance and don't try to make lights. If my work grows I have thought about a road tractor and a lowboy. But it is a lot of money for something that doesn't really make you money. In other words a dump truck can not only haul your equipment it can haul stone, logs, stumps, etc. If you get into more site work you will find you will make a lot of use with the dump, where as road tractor will sit between the beginning and end of a job. That being said most of my work is in a 1hour radius of my home so multiple trips to mobilize is not that big a deal. If your jobs are 3 hours away maybe a road tractor and lowboy start to make sense. There is a geo thermal guy in my area that goes out of state and he now has a road tractor and lowboy. Stump jumper has a good point that the road tractor could be rigged to pull a tag. I just bought a 1999 Mack RD 690S dump truck and payed 20 for it and it is in nice shape. The owner was asking 30 but wanted out. So you should be able to get a very nice truck for 30. Good luck.

 

[Dig_Texas]

Thanks for the input. Right now it looks like unless I can find a good road tractor with a lowboy, I'll probably stick to a dump truck and pull the tag and deal with hauling an excavator if/when I get one.

 

[Willis Bushogin]

I agree with the Ford L9000, Ive lost count on how many I have owned, in the last 15 years. It seems like, I buy them to use, fix them up, paint them a good color and people offer me a price I cant refuse, so here I go again. Currently, I have 2- L9000's quads (dumps) they both have Cat 3176 engines (not my favorite engine, but they do a good job) KW T800 quad, Cummins Big Cam, (2) Freightliner dumps with Cummins L10 engines
My favorite engines are Cat 3406B and the Cummins 400 Big Cam, if geared right, they will out work most engines.
Dont be afraid to buy older trucks, just be careful what you buy. I just bought a 1995 Ford L9000 quad dump for $12,000, 120,000 miles. I painted it and had to put a radiator in it. I wouldnt take $20,000 for it now
I also like the KW T800, any year models
On the comment about a skidsteer Takeuchi 140/150 I totally agree with that choice, I really think they will push as much as a D3 and llok what else you can do with it
Good luck and be careful picking out a truck

 

[Dig_Texas]

Dont be afraid to buy older trucks, just be careful what you buy.

Right now I'm seeing '90-'99 tandems and tandems with drop axles in the range where I can afford them. I've seen a few with the Detroit 12.7L ...

I learned my lesson on the T444E engine; not a strong performer fer sure.

 

[DGODGR]

Any of the larger motors from the big three (Cat, Cummins, Detroit) are good motors. They can go over 1 million miles if well cared for. Right now my Pete tandum dump has over 650,000 miles on it (Cummins N-14 under the hood). By being careful you will have to look over each perspective truck with a fine tooth comb. There are many components on a big rig and they are all expensive to repair. If you don't know what to look for I strongly urge you to get a mechanic to check them out (one that you trust or comes highly recommended by someone you trust). My favorite engine is the 3406C (@ 425 HP). It has power everywhere through the entire RPM range and excellent torque rise.
Get a dump truck because it can mack you $ and will be more versatile than the truck/tractor for construction.
A Cat 315 weighs between 36,000 and 40,000# depending on how it is equipped. Mine has the long U/C, reach boom, long stick, and a thumb, and it weighs 39,900#. The TK20 should have a payload of 20 tons so, depending on your states regulations, it should be able to handle the 315. I carry mine on a 25 ton tri-axle trailer, but I could legally carry it, in my state (CO), with a 20 ton trailer. I bought the tri-axle because I thought I may buy a 20 ton excavator, at some point, and did not want to have to buy another trailer too.

 

[Dig_Texas]

There are many components on a big rig and they are all expensive to repair. If you don't know what to look for I strongly urge you to get a mechanic to check them out (one that you trust or comes highly recommended by someone you trust).

When I got the Intl. it was a long distance purchase. I had the local Intl. Tucson dealership send a mechanic out. He found some minor issues that were addressed. I should have known better than to get an automatic tranny behind a known slug engine. At least the AC and cruise worked.

I know how painfull backhoe and dozer repairs can get. I just rebuilt two hoe cylinders and just the seals and pistons were $500 from Momma Deere. I also just did the 2000 hr. service and was surprised that Deere sold me all the filters for about 1/2 of what the local "discount" auto supply could source them for. I'll still never understand the guys around here that charge $55/hr. for a hoe and $65 for a small dozer. I'm guess I'm just lucky and sell my hoe work as an "aside" to the main business of geothermal loop installations.