T Series vs. R Series

[Mass-X]

Has anyone had the chance to do some side-by-side comparisons between the RII's and the new T series CAT dozers?

I've heard a lot of mixed reviews on the new T series machines, and most of what I've heard contradicts each other.

Some operators say that the new T's have more power, while others say a lot less due to the ACERT/Tier III technology.

I've spent a few thousand hours in various sized RII's and RIII's, but the only T's that I've been in are two D10T's, and I was quite impressed with them.

They didn't seem to lack any power over the D10R's that I've run. The company with the two D10T's has done some after-market work to them (I want to say they're chipped?), so it may not be a fair comparison.

Anyone who's got to run same sized R's and T's care to share their thoughts on the differences/preferences between the series'?

 

[Tigerotor77W]

Are you referring specifically to large track-type models? (Say, the D8 and up?)

I'm pretty sure that the D6T outdozes the D6R III to a nice extent.

 

[OzDozer]

The nephew is currently running 14 Cats .. dozers, graders, articulated dumps, and a skid steer. He has mostly D9L's and D9R's.

He wanted a new D9T for a major new mine project, and couldn't get one for 12 months. Cat are flat-chat, and are struggling to meet large earthmoving equipment demand.

He managed to source a demo D9R out of Japan, at a saving of nearly AU$400,000.
A new D9T was AU$1.4M .. the D9R cost him AU$1,050,000 landed, with less than 20 hrs on the clock. It was a cancelled order. That's a huge saving, and he has a proven model.

He's happy enough with the R's .. and says he has had 2nd thoughts, about stepping straight into a new model that's unproven.

He follows our family belief that has stood us in good stead for 40 years .. buy the latest model, and you become the proving ground for the manufacturer, by finding all the bugs they missed.

We always reckoned, that you stand back, and wait for a couple of years, until the new model has gained a good reputation .. and the 'bugs' have been sorted out. Only then do you step in and buy.

Every manufacturer has their good and bad models, and Cat is no exception. The new models are finicky on fuel and oil quality .. and the T's are an unproven machine at this point.

 

[Dozerboy]

We have both 9/10Rs & Ts I'll see what the boss has to say, but they are very happy with the Ts. None of ours have overheated like other and that is working them hard in 115* temps.

 

[Mass-X]

Are you referring specifically to large track-type models? (Say, the D8 and up?)

Any two equivalent sized dozers, one being an RII/RIII and the other being a T. So, any comparisons between 6, 8, 9 or 10's is what I'd like to hear.

 

[farm_boy]

I'm pretty sure that the D6T outdozes the D6R III to a nice extent.

What makes you say this Tiger? From what I see there isn't anything with the 6T that would make a significant difference in productivity other than a shorter turning radius (from two steering pumps) and a lock up T/C. If there are any other differences I would be interested to know what they are.

 

[bigdig]

Is there a D7T coming out soon?

Cat upgraded all of their larger dozers to the T Series excapt the D7R II and the D11R. Does anyone know if they will be upgrading the D7R to the T designation. Deere (950J) and Komatsu (D85 EX-15) already upgraded their machines in this class to Tier III status. Are their major changes in the works for the D7?

 

[Tigerotor77W]

What makes you say this Tiger? From what I see there isn't anything with the 6T that would make a significant difference in productivity other than a shorter turning radius (from two steering pumps) and a lock up T/C. If there are any other differences I would be interested to know what they are.

Perhaps nothing astronomical, but as I understood it, the D6RIII is a huge dog when turning under load. I haven't seen actual numbers to quantify my assumption of a "significant performance increase," but I was guessing something in the 5-8% range for certain applications. I was under the impression the D6RIII would lug quite a bit when trying to powerturn (because of only one pump) and would slow down significantly. Perhaps I am considering the wrong facets here.

 

[farm_boy]

Perhaps nothing astronomical, but as I understood it, the D6RIII is a huge dog when turning under load. I haven't seen actual numbers to quantify my assumption of a "significant performance increase," but I was guessing something in the 5-8% range for certain applications. I was under the impression the D6RIII would lug quite a bit when trying to powerturn (because of only one pump) and would slow down significantly. Perhaps I am considering the wrong facets here.

I guess I don't know either w/o running a R-III against a T. I'll get the chance to run a R-III next week. I would think that no matter how many pumps you have if you are not increasing the horsepower while you are in the turn the the engine pull down will remain the same. The hydraulic requirement to turn the machine under load would remain the same regardless of how many pumps are turning the diff steer motor. I am assuming that all the additional pumps will do is provide for more flow to the diff steer motor and thus allowing for a tighter turning radius at speed. Do you know if the engine is under a power boost while steering? The Deere 850J LGP does this while turning due to the high load factor placed on the engine while trying to turn the wide shoes in often soft conditions.

It would be very hard to quanify the production advantage of the T vs the R-III based soley on better turning ability. This is because during a production study there would be too many variables from pass to pass to have a consistent run with each machine each time. Production with a dozer is typically measure while dozing in a straight line.

Again just my perspective and :my2c

 

[Cat Dr.]

I've had a bit to do with the 10T's and 10 R's, The 10T's are definately a lot better as far as an operators perspective, beaut cab, comfy and smooth as, and the ADVISOR system is unreal for diagnostics (Like an onboard CAT ET), while the 10R's are a good tractor (until the HEUI engine starts playing up!!) I definately reckon 10T is the go, only downside with the 10T is the silly RATAAC setup under the bonnet (Remote Air to Air After Cooling) which they've fixed now and have an Aftercooler mounted behind the radiator, the nasty habit of catching fire (CAT's onto it with Fuel Line Routing updates, I seen 3 tractors catch fire so far) and if anyones ever had to change the EQ bar end seals they prob know they're a bloody tight fit! But all round they're pretty good value! A good move up on an already proven product
Just my opinion!

 

[Tigerotor77W]

all the additional pumps will do is provide for more flow to the diff steer motor and thus allowing for a tighter turning radius at speed.

Could be... I wish the uni offered a hydraulics course, because I could really use it.

Do you know if the engine is under a power boost while steering? The Deere 850J LGP does this while turning due to the high load factor placed on the engine while trying to turn the wide shoes in often soft conditions.

I don't know, no. Can you explain the mechanics behind the point about the 850J?

Production with a dozer is typically measure while dozing in a straight line.

True. I guess I was referring more to the controllability of the machine and its ability, say, to V-ditch or to pioneer (I think it's pioneering? Shearing off a rock wall that's parallel to the machine?), though the latter isn't prevalent in the D6-size class.

I don't mean to sound like a newb in everything I write, but I'm glad farm_boy is correcting me now. I'm glad I'm learning and I'm glad to do it here. I guess I'm somewhat worried (still too strong a word, but it gets the point across) that it seems I know nothing, but I'm glad I'm getting my most obvious misconceptions corrected.

 

[farm_boy]

I'll get the chance to run a R-III next week.

Ran a R-III with a 6 way blade today in some soft dirt. It doesn't really bog down that much, it just takes 2 acres to turn the thing around. The T with more steering flow should help that. It seemed to be a pretty good tractor to grade with.