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Stupidity after work hours.

Discussion in 'Safety Issues' started by Truckie, Apr 23, 2008.

  1. rabia

    rabia Banned

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    hahahah...i am really impressed from this child. no doubt he is genius. people learn from mistakes.
     
  2. oldtanker

    oldtanker Senior Member

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    Yea we were all young once. But not all of us were stupid.

    I do agree that the company should give the young man a chance. Make him pay damages and keep him on. If he refuses to learn then get rid of him.

    Rick
     
  3. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    I do, I do very well. My father was a fledging homebuilder when I was young and had a few houses vandalized by "kids being kids".:cool2 Broken windows, busted sheetrock, etc. I know what it means to go in and fix what "kids being kids" do and the costs associated with it. We didn't get to go on a vacation that year due to "kids being kids".:cool:

    Now I will prosecute any "kid being a kid" to the fullest extent of the law if I catch them "being kids" with my equipment or property. :cool2
     
  4. Dozerboy

    Dozerboy Senior Member

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    Your right thats exactly the same thing. Some kid messing around doing donuts and accidentally breaking out a window. And some punks breaking out windows and putting holes in walls intentionally.

    Lighten up.
     
  5. JGS Parts

    JGS Parts Senior Member

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    bloody hell guys , come on what if it was a kid playing ball and hit the window or something would it be the same? are you all trying to tell me you have never strayed? i would say at least he was not out drunk and speeding in the car or anything like that and hey if he paid for the window at least he showed he was willing to do that.
     
  6. Randy88

    Randy88 Senior Member

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    Gosh CM, first off, I"m not sure how much damage was done to the house, we weren't there, but to put everyone into the same view on every issue, might be somewhat short sided, this was one window and your comparing that to what? thousands of dollars of damage, this kid came back to the scene of the crime and those didn't, I'm not thinking its the exact same thing, sorry about the past, but if you want sympathy about a missed vacation, I only ever had one, growing up, I don't think your gonna get much sympathy from me on the missed vacation, the work it took to redo everything, yes.

    I try to look at each case and circumstances and be fair about the punishment, not execute someone for shoplifting the first time,all lessons in life are learned, most through experience and actually doing something bad or negative, if everyone is perfect, then what does anyone have to compare to, I always looked at everything can be used as a positive learning ordeal, I laughed about it, first off, because I did the same thing, and second, every one of my kids did too as they were growing up, along with all their friends.

    Someone a long time ago, gave me some advice, he gave me a break and told me he did it because someday I'd be faced with the same decision on others and to do the same for them, don't ruin their lives over or belittle them for a minor offense, teach them a lesson they'll take with them for life, and figure out how to do it with dignity and you've solved many problems, first one, they learned a lesson, second they were humbled by a kind gesture and third, you probably won't have problems with them ever again, and fourth, you learn forgiveness and what it truly means. It taken 30 plus years, but the old guy was right on everything he told me back then, just a thought to ponder over.
     
  7. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.:cool2
     
  8. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    Sympathy is the last thing I am looking at from you Randy...:cool2

    Sorry but I hear that crap "kids being kids" all time to excuse the little hellions behavior and give an excuse for poor parenting. My rant might not be directly related to this story but I have had tens of thousands of dollars worth of vandalism over the years performed by "kids being kids" and nobody stepped up and claimed the damage.

    Numerous windshields and side glass broken, fire extinguishers sprayed into fuel tanks and cabs, lights broke out, etc, etc. One hit in 2006 cost me over $15,000. So if my view is "harsh" in some I eyes, I make no apologies.:cool:

    Sorry Randy but I didn't go around busting out windows in buildings and vandalizing equipment when I was a kid, so I can't use that as a laughable teaching moment. I know that's not what you meant and I am semi-hijacking the thread but it's just something that really gets under my skin.


    Apologize for the rant and the hijack but I have paid enough over the last 20 years for "kids being kids". Every time I get in my 420, I look out the cracked windshield from the last escapade of "kids being kids.":cool:
     
  9. Dozerboy

    Dozerboy Senior Member

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    Now we agree;)





    What your talking about isn't "kids being kids" its "punks being punks". I to would take action against them.
     
  10. Randy88

    Randy88 Senior Member

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    Poor parenting, wow, that's a loaded statement.

    If your wanting to know my pet peeve, its those that blame the parents for everything on every issue they can, because it makes them feel better and someone to put in the inferior role compared to themselves. As for solving anything, it generally doesn't, as for your vandalism, I'm not sure but to me, it would be a fault of yours to not figure out how to either prevent it or stop if from happening again. I've had vandalism in the past, we took measures to prevent it again and nowhere did I blame anyone for damaging my machines or property, sure I was upset, anyone would be, but then I figured out how it happened and made sure it didn't happen again. Just out of curiosity, if someone steals something out of your unlocked truck is it the parents fault of those that stole or yours for not locking your truck?

    Apparently everything of property damage is lumped into vandalism in your eye's, so that must mean, all the textbooks I was ever assigned in school, who the former students had written in or on, had bad parents then, huh? Every fender bender, scuffed car door in a parking lot, kids bicycle who ran into a neighbors car, tricycle who ran over the neighbors flower bed, every underage drinking party, every drunk driver by any age, anyone arrested for speeding, all the kids baseballs that went through a neighbors window, god what crappy parents those were to allow such a thing to happen. All the arguement in school, failed classes, assignments that didn't get turned in, all those are prime examples of lack of respect is that the same thing? all my tools that got broken over the years, or equipment that broke down while my kids ran it, I see, its not from learning, it was my fault as a parent, I didn't do the right thing and teach them how to properly operate it or have it properly maintained, this opens up a whole new window of blame I'd overlooked before, thanks for pointing it out to me. Those people hooked on drugs, with criminal records, revoked drivers license's, drunk driving charges, teen age drinking charges, those that I know vandalized something in their youth, were involved in an auto accident or fender bender, it must be the parents fault for doing a crappy job, and all these years I just thought it was called growing up and learning from one's mistakes, figuring out boundries, learning how to do things, becoming your own person, figuring out how each wanted to live their own lives, how to deal and handle peer pressure, learning how to get along in society and interact with others outside your family. So is there an age limit on blame, when they turn 18, 21, 30 or can we blame the parents forever, just how does this work anyhow? Don't forget George Washington, with good parents, he'd have never chopped down that cheery tree, too bad he did't go onto do something worthwhile with his life. I guess we'll agree to disagree on this issue and leave it at that.

    Well to sum it up, did I laugh, darn right I did, I also paid for everything I or my kids broke, next thing, if some of you can't handle this, send the kid that did this my way, I think I can handle it with tact and diplomacy and not blame his parents or call him a hoodlum, don't think that'll solve much anyhow, but then again, I'm just a parent and am probably wrong anyhow, and is it a teachable moment, yes, if you want to chose to do so, otherwise I could see where its might be better for some to blame the parents and leave teaching to others, who can handle it. Just an opinion, if yours differs, so be it.
     
  11. roddyo

    roddyo Senior Member

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    Around here you make your own luck for the most part. If you have much trouble....you usally bring it on yourself.

    If that kid wants to be an operator he should have spun the machine around with the counter weight catching the gravel;)
     
  12. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    Every time somebody busted my windows out of my equipment or vandalized some other property of mine I didn't blame myself, I blame who did it. Short of posting a night watchman, there is only so much you can do in a suburban area. They go over or under the gates and fences, tried that too. Video cameras work OK but it's hard to get a clear enough facial picture to do anything with.

    Speak of a night watchman, I had to do that as well. I was building a 60 unit town home project back in the early 2000's and one morning my supervisor discovered where some kids during the night tried to burn down one of the units in a 6 unit building. The reason we and the sheriff detective could determine it was kids was because they set a pack of outlet covers on a saw horse and lit them on fire. Luckily, they didn't add enough "kindling" and the fire just smoldered. They also threw a small amount of gas down the stair well and lit it on fire. It scorched the stair treads and sheet rock but luckily it didn't catch. If it would have been real "arsonists" they would have succeeded. This was during the winter so the humidity was high and unit was damp. Cost about $2K to repaint the interior of the unit and 6 months of paying for a night watchman.

    If the Sheriff would have found the would be arsonists, yes I absolutely would have pressed charges. Either the kids were old enough to know better than to burn a building down or they were young enough not to know better and then the question is where were their parents? Either way its the sorry kids or the parents that are responsible, damn sure wasn't my fault.:rolleyes:

    There have been so many instances over the years that I have no patience for this type of behavior. I lock down all my equipment at the end of the day - battery disconnects, pad locks on tanks and compartments, lock doors and install vandal screens if the machine has them. Also try to park it under an overhead light if one is available.

    If someone steals something out of my unlocked truck they are still a thief and it's still a crime, no matter who you blame.:cool2

    We are so far apart on this topic that we'll just have to agree to disagree. :confused::beatsme
     
  13. mitch504

    mitch504 Senior Member

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    I just read the last few posts in this thread with this expression on my face: :jawdrop

    Randy, I've read enough of your posts to know that you are an otherwise sane business owner, a man who has worked his ass off to build a business, and a man I respect. I was shocked to read what you wrote about it possibly being my fault if someone steals something out of my unlocked truck!

    I am sick to death of this culture of no one is responsible for his own actions. Just because the truck isn't locked, does that give a clear indication that everything in it is unwanted? I don't think anybody would argue that it does. So, you must be arguing that it is my responsibility, as the owner of the truck and it's contents, to protect some useless ----head from his own impulses, or criminal lifestyle, and it's consequences? Well ---- no, it ain't! If he wants to steal, there should be harsh penalties.

    On the parenting question: By the time I was let out unsupervised, I had been taught "that's not yours, leave it alone". That is a simple concept but way too many parents do fail to teach it. If my parents had found out that I had committed vandalism as a teenager, they would have paid for the damage, because everything I did was their responsibility, but I would have worked enough to pay for it several times over, and I would have had to go and apologize. I would not have been unsupervised again for quite a while.

    My son did get in a little trouble while living w/ his mother at the age of 14. I brought him to live with me, and for 6 months, if he wasn't in school he was w/ me. I can honestly say it was the most miserable I have ever been. However it was worth it. He is now a man I like and respect, and I am very proud of him.

    CM, I can tell you from bitter experience that even if you serve up the criminals on a silver platter, you'll be damn lucky if they get a slap on the wrist.
     
  14. JGS Parts

    JGS Parts Senior Member

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    Can i say something guys I think it is a Weston idea to break windows and things , as everyday in china i see excavators sitting there in the streets unlocked no vandle covers or anything and i never see anyone bust a window on them or anything , but see i also wonder if it is because there is a seance of fear in china that if you get court doing something wrong they really do not just give you a slap on the wrist over here. Also i dont see any really gratify over here either like i used to see back in australia.

    thats just my 2 cents though
     
  15. CM1995

    CM1995 Super Moderator

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    Mitch, I can see we were cut out of the same block.;)

    Yeah I know. I have copies of all the reports filed somewhere, all they were good for was to send to the Ins. Co. None of them went anywhere, not even the arson issue. Cops weren't interested in doing anything, just said file it on your insurance.:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2013
  16. leachrod

    leachrod Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you Dozer boy nothing like a good donut, besides its not fun being the guy who broke the window. I rolled a hoe off a trailer once back window was just replaced, of course it fell out and broke. I was teased daily for a long time. Made me a better operator amd gave everyone something. To rattle my cage about. Now if they want it loaded in winter on a frozen deck they call me. Lol
     
  17. Randy88

    Randy88 Senior Member

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    Mitch, my insurance company states, I have to take precautionary measures to prevent theft, its written right in the policy, I know because I've gone down this route before many times, same as anything with my equipment, if I were to leave anything unlocked, I'd be partly if not more responsible for the theft, and have a lot of talking to do to ever get paid, so in the insurance companies eye's, yes in fact I am at fault, to what extent, only they would determine, this idea of that it's always "someone else's fault" isn't really how anyone's life works, you have to take some of the responsibility yourself, it sure isn't the thief's parents fault, no different than it isn't the parents fault for someone who'd vandalize anything either, its those that do the vandalizing plain and simple, if it makes you feel better to claim that, go fool yourself and keep it up, if I have repeated vandalism problems, first we sit down and figure out why, then take care of it, no matter the cost. If that's to hire a full time watchmen, or a crew of them, or to take stuff home every night or whatever, first off, my insurance company wouldn't leave me with much option.

    On the subject of destruction of property, weather its theft, vandalism or whatever, I'd have to do certain things, I'm not sure what insurance companies do or require in your area, apparently nothing, but around me, we have things called audits and onsite inspections, which are random and they can show up at any time, on any site, this first came as a surprise to me, I'd never had it done before, and I didn't know who did them either, but I've received many letters in the mail over the years to tell me either I was in compliance or not if not, I'd be cancelled in x number of days, yes it came as a shock and took some head scratching to figure out what I'd done wrong and many phone calls later to find out. "I have to take due precautions to prevent theft or vandalism" has always been the explaination, if they feel I routinely don't, they can and will cancel me at any time, I've also never had a claim with any of these insurance companies for vandalism or theft either, or any before these companies either, I'd either had someone come forward and pay the damages, those responsible got caught, or I just paid it out of pocket, anyway you look at it doesn't really matter, I'd never blamed the parents of those doing it, what a crock and excuse, nor those that did it personally either, I stood back, took inventory of why it happened and took action, if it was a personal vendetta, which in most cases it was, I figured out what I'd done to cause the problem, in most cases it was an underbid, or I got the job from someone else and they were upset, not some kid or punk or just some random thing, and given the oppertunity for the incident to happen, just like the insurance company had deemed or tried to get me to prevent.

    I"d have no idea just how you took my post, apparently not as it was intended, but on everything where vandalism was done as a kid myself, or by my kids, it was usually a case where it wasn't intended, just an outcome of messing around, I doubt since we're actually discussing this case, the kid probably realized he broke the window or ever intended it to happen, he was probably focusing on doing donuts and not that he'd kick up a rock, same as everything I'd ever done, going too fast slid off the road on wet conditions and took out a mailbox sort of thing, then go back hat in hand and fess up, pay the damages and apologize and move on with life, or get the phone call later on saying you know your kids were out tearing around on four wheelers in the hay field and spooked my cattle and now someone needs to put them back in and fix fence, so we go and take care of it, apologize and tell the truth, nobody knew your cattle were still in the pasture for the season, even though they weren't in your pasture tearing around, they should have known better.

    Where anyone came up with this notion of a "kid being a kid" translates into intentionally going around using rocks and breaking out windows in machines, or using sledge hammers and go at a machine, or stealing a machine or tools, I"d have no idea, I nor my kids ever did that, i really don't know of any that ever did, this case in point, the kid didn't unless the video showed he did, which was never stated, so I took it as not the case at all, he was just screwing around and an outcome he'd never intended came about, if he'd have known it, he'd have probably gone, oh ****, then panic, not come in the next day and be surprised, his first reaction probably was when confronted, what,,,,,,,,,, me,.............. how.................. and when reality sank it, then the oh **** factor kicked in,the beat red face, sweating, nervous, start shaking, etc, I'd personally liked to have been there to see that reaction, but since I'm a dad, get some more pleasure out of seeing a cocky kid getting caught red handed and not see it coming, but that's just me and a personal perk.

    I'd have no idea where CM translated anything on this thread into the 16k in damages to his own machines and those responsible were the results of poor parenting and how he's not responsible for anything, maybe not in his world, but in mine, let me state for the record, I'm always partly responsible for everything that happens to my propety whether I like it or not, so yes the unlocked vehicle is still partly my own fault, not just the thiefs, and I've also had to repair door locks so they did work and I could lock the doors, as per instructions from the insurance company, same as on my machines, and install theft deterrent measures as per instructions, along with in some locations, take everything home every night and the list is endless, but then again, I've not had problems either, so take it for what its worth, and by the way, blaming "someone else" never solved anything, neither does standing there stating, I did all I could, when in fact, that's never the case either, just an excuse to make yourself feel better.

    So Mitch, thanks for telling me my post was taken wrong and letting me know, if I didn't make it clear, please specify and we'll work on it some more, I certainly never meant to horrify anyone, but this is how the world works in my sector of it, if its different in yours please explain.
     
  18. roddyo

    roddyo Senior Member

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    How anyone can compare a kid working for you doing a donut and taking out a window with someone vandalising a machine on purpose is beyond me.
     
  19. markshr151

    markshr151 Well-Known Member

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    Donuts good,broken window bad,lying immature. So the answer is simple. Buy some donuts, fix the window together (with him paying for the cost.)and take the time to address the real issues like lying,the real cost of donuts and what it takes to be a man.A final thought, it may be a waste of time but if we don't try with the young ones then it is our lack of character that is the real problem.
     
  20. Dozerboy

    Dozerboy Senior Member

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    This is going to sound harsher then I intend it to, But you don't live in the real world. While there are exclusion to the rule it is largely the parents fault when the children act out. Does that mean their bad parents? No, but they raised then giving them the values they have. Like lack of respect of other peoples property. Lack of empathy and only thinking of yourself.

    You want to blame yourself good for you that make you part of the problem IMO. Here lock your door at times just gets your window broken out to find there isn't anything worth stealing. We had a road builder that was having there batteries, alternators, wiring, starters stolen off their equipment(cranes) in a bad part of town. Started locking the doors. Locks got broken and doors got bent. Used special bolts that took special tools to remove. Bots got cut off. Started wedding things onto the equipment. They ended up smashing alt. and starters just to pull the copper out of them. But I'm sure thats there fault..right?